WHAAAAT!!! SOMEBODY CALL MY ENGINE BUILDER IVE BEEN MISLEAD!!

 

Lots of good information here, and some entertainment from the guy in the UK who keeps reminding all of us that it's not a "real" upgrade unless you can run it from 0-300mph 15 times over and over again hot lapping it .

Speaking of the UK, I'm super jealous of the R34 Nick...

It really boils down to what you want from the car.

If you never want to touch the engine, get a nice VTG rebuild with HTZ compressor wheels, GT2RS intercoolers, ID1000 injectors, Sachs 2.5 clutch, turbo inlet pipes, and Cobb Accessport to tune it. It'll make 600-700 on E85 depending how you tune it and what dyno you use.

Otherwise the next logical step is the Alpha 9 setup, although if you want to save some money you can source the turbos, intercoolers, etc. and save quite a bit and get the same performance. SRM intercoolers, etc. can save you some cash. PTF has a pretty good thread on here about their Alpha 3076 build. A full on TiAL Alpha car can get pretty close to 1,000whp if turned all the way up. You'll need to replace the rods, and head studs in order to get there. This is kind of the no man's land for 997 Turbo, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to spend the money on the engine build and not go all out.

Beyond that it is on to full on built motor time. Might as well go big, 1000-1200whp range is pretty doable with off the shelf parts and a few vendors on this board have experience with putting these monsters together. Liquid intercoolers, guards rear diff, and DSS axles in the drivetrain. At this point you need a carbon clutch, and probably some gearset upgrades from someone like Bill Rader Motorsports in Las Vegas. Liquid intercoolers, "big" turbos (i.e. Xona 71/64 or 78/64), brushless fuel pump upgrade, etc.

 

^^ I have not said that buddy simply disputed all these 700bhp claims. An upgrade is an upgrade but can also be a downgrade if the car is slower than stock after a few hard long runs.

Let me guess you also have 700 bhp?

8 sec pulls in 3rd and 4th on a dyno does not mean 700 bhp. Just try running with an F12 or an Aventador at an event and see what happens...

 

Do you work for 9e? If not, why would you change your username do it? That's silly. If you don't work for them, you sure as hell are chugging on that koolaid. We get it, you feel like you have to justify your overpriced parts that you got from them, but jumping onto every thread that has to do with vtgs and spreading your gospel is really starting to get annoying. Bottom line is that measuring power in bhp is irrelevant and measuring speeds to 300kph is irrelevant.

You have not discovered some secret that no one else knew. Every platform is the same. You determine what use your car will be and you mod it and tune it for that use. If you're going to be running your car to 300kph, you obviously have to tune it so that it can handle those speeds. Same way a quarter mile car would be tuned differently. Same way a track car or a circuit car would be tuned different. Same way a Twin peaks car would be tuned differently.

Most people on these boards and most Americans tune for quarter mile and 60-130 because honestly, how often are you running to 300kph on American roads? The people who go to half mile events and Texas Mile tune their car accordingly for that. Everyone else just wants a fast street car.

-Jose

 

Actually they are making quite a bit more than 700bhp. In any type of straight line racing cool down is part of the game. That's why you see people icing intercoolers, etc over here before runs.

 

No I do not work for 9e or have an interest in the company I simply have the 9e package. In fact with hindsight I wish I'd gone for a Garrett 3071 set up like Emre's 850R package and switched away from VTGS but hindsight is a wonderful thing. You get used to the extra power even on bigger VTGS very quickly but I take a few posters point about most cars never being used in anger as they are street cars so 60-130mph main goal etc

This idea that these VTG based cars tuned for 1/4 or 1/2 mile and have more than 700bhp on VTGS is just wrong. If the 700 + bhp tuned street car chokes over 1.5 miles at WOT and a 640 bhp VTG turbo beats it how the **** does it have 700bhp? Just ridiculous...

The OP has a right to know its optimistic at best and snake oil at worst... 750 R, 775 B, 775 R etc etc complete farce. There was even someone telling that 1000bhp crank or 885whp to be more precise was possible on their VTG package and they've never run their cars 0-300kph.

Pls don't get fired up guys I'm just advising the OP nothing more. If you want to live in denial and believe your cars have more thrust than the saturn space rockets thats fine by me.

 

I would contact Todd at Protomotive and get his opinion based on what it is you are trying to do.

I have/had an EVT750/775 car. I ran into some issues and had to get a different motor due to a catastrophic failure. That being said, I wish I would have had Todd look at the whole thing first. He switched it to E85 and the car makes 630awhp/630 lbs.tq. It could make more, but, that is plenty fast and powerful for my needs. The power is 10x more usable than before and this is still keeping the 63.5mm compressor wheels that the OLD evt750s use to run.

It is my understanding, the newer kits have a 65mm now, but regardless, unless you are doing work to the motor, I would not go any more than 650awhp on E85...or not a hair over 580awhp on pump gas.

If you are doing this just for fun and you want a car with usable power all across the board, then I would stick with VTGs, intercoolers, exhaust, E85/1100s, and be done.

You will need inlet ducts, recirculation valves, ignition coils, plugs and a few different misc. like boost hoses, pulley and things like that since you are already there...but having a 600awhp+ car will be plenty.

I have an Alpha9+ GTR and the service/advise/follow up/through from AMS is really, really good. I don't think you can go wrong with these guys either.

Good luck!

 

Here are some results we posted over a year back on this forum with OEM VTGs on our shop car and pump 93 octane on our Mustang AWD dyno, 535awhp/562awtq, with nothing more than an exhaust, intercoolers and an IPD plenum. Stock clutch started slipping very shortly after.

Our Mustang reads about 15% lower than Dynojets out there and a stock 997.1 turbo puts down around 380-390awhp on it.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post4146982

Here are some of the vbox runs we've done as we went through the paces with tuning on OEM VTGs and the above hardware:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...s-intro-2.html

We had 5 months (pretty much an entire season) of hard driving with the car without any issues outside of a need for a clutch with that setup. VTGs were pulled off to go further with a goal of maximizing the stock motor setup, progression posted about here (still in progress):

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...6-project.html

535awhp we got on our Mustang with OEM VTGs translates to about 600-620awhp on a Dynojet, around 700 crank roughly. With say meth or E85 on the car we could dial in quite a bit more ignition timing and possibly an extra pound of boost into the tune and run a tad leaner to make an additional 50-65awhp. Inlet pipes would help efficiency there at higher boost levels.

A similar setup has been running flawlessly on a number of 997.1 OEM VTGs all over the World and one of them is the current vbox 60-130 record holder for an OEM VTG setup running a 6.7sec 60-130 on pump gas and a 5.9sec 60-130mph on E85. Our car ran a 7.1 60-130 at its best on pump gas when the clutch started to slip.

I don't believe this tune would be optimal for repeated 0-300kph at all. It is a street setup made to maximize 60-130mph times and performance of the car on the street in most places in the World. Even 130mph is far beyond legal limits in most places. As some have alluded to and we've mentioned before, there's simply no single tune that works 'best' in all possible situations. Street, 1/4 mile and 60-130mph runs can sort of fall in one category of maximizing the area under the curve. Road course going cars are tuned differently and similar to cars doing extended 1/2 to full mile pulls to 300+kph as thermal loading on the motor is far higher than anything you'll see in a 60-130, 1/4 mile run let alone in a 1-2-3 gear pull on the street just having fun with the car. When going for extended pulls under full load it isn't just tuning that should be addressed but also various cooling systems such as air to water intercoolers, ducting, methanol/water as IATs/EGTs/backpressure can get out of control.

There are so many angles when tuning a given car. Street tunes do cover a great portion of cars out there but certainly not all and what works well on one car in one sort of ambients may not necessarily work for another car.

Dzenno@PTF

 

^ +1

 

It's a good thing he posted that when he did. I ended up deleting half of my post, because he already said it. Plus, I ended up sounding a little extra polite.

 

Very happy with my setup and not interested in racing beyond the top of 4th gear at 7k rpm, which is around 133 or so with my tire setup. The car is explosively fast on E85...with traction control off in 60 deg or cooler weather, it spins all 4 clear through second gear.

 

So, I scanned through this thread quickly, and it seems to have taken the direction of just about every other VTG turbo thread. Lots of naysayers, lots of speculation, and lots of misinformation.

The fact of the matter is, if you want 600whp on pump gas using VTG's, it IS possible and it CAN be done as long as you have a good tuner and the right supporting upgrades to the car. Our 65mm VTG package makes 600whp easily and we have installed it on literally dozens and dozens of cars without ever a complaint. Our 68mm VTG turbo upgrades have yielded over 850whp, again with good supporting upgrades being the key.

 

I'm fairly interested in your setup. I'd like to max the stock turbos out on my car (997.1 6mt) and it looks like you have that figured out. I don't think I've seen a sub 6 60-130 before on stock snails. I'd be interested in knowing a ballpark all in (parts/labor) cost you have in your go fast bits as well as what boost you're running. Feel free to pm, I don't mean to derail the OP's thread.

Thanks

 

Thanks, you haven't seen a sub 6 sec stock turbo run because I have the record . We can chat about it here, as it's germane to the topic at hand, and I have no secrets. Every mod is what I have in my signature. My car came with the AWE exhaust, so that was a $4k savings, but if I had to do it myself, I would have gone with a kline setup. They sound better, cost less, and are constructed as well as the best out there. I added it all up and it was around 10-11k, but I had a fair amount of maintenance and preventative work done while the engine was out including pinning of the coolant pipes, RMS/Fuel filter/spark plug/coil/main serpentine belt, water pump, etc, etc all replaced at the same time which was all part of the total bill.

This performance is all street tuning only, btw. My car drops to about 14.8 psi by 6500 rpm according to the intake mani map sensor. I'm taking it and having it fine tuned on pump and E85 at Topspeed in a few weeks. I imagine it'll pick up a decent amount of power on E85 as I intentionally didn't push it a year ago and will try to pick up a couple lbs more boost up high. Also, dyno is needed to make sure we don't advance past MBT....we've been cautious with the timing advance on E85 with street tuning because of that. At the very least we will see what it's making on E85...but based on how it runs on the street and how it demolishes stock turbo E85 GT-Rs from a roll...I'm expecting somewhere in the 650 whp range on ethanol.

 

What is the limit of the stock MT clutch? At what point do you need to upgrade the clutch?