When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Well, one man's intelligent mod's is another man's hack job.
Hard enough to really check out a used car and mod's just make it that much harder.
And I hate to break this to you but just because someone can afford to mod's his car, or bolt some mod's to his car, doesn't guarantee he knows doodly squat about proper servicing. I come upon some owners who like to blend various oils for some kind a magic multi-viscosity oil, or insist on reusing oil drain plug sealing rings, and so on.
Some of the worst serviced cars are cars that have been owner serviced.
He is right! I use reconstituted oil and buy all my parts from Rock Auto. Even spoken to the skinny leg guitar playing girl.
In December 2015, I sold my 996T 6MT coupe and bought my current 997T 6MT cabriolet. I was watching both markets leading up to my sale and have continued to follow them since. I would have done much better had I waited 6 months.... 996s definitely started picking up momentum early in 2016. From late 2015 to now, based on my observations, I would estimate the 996T 6MT market is up a solid $5k (if not more). KBB felt the same.
The 997T 6MT market seems to have lost a few thousand over the same period for what I would consider mid-mileage cars (30k-50k miles). Low mile 997T 6MTs still seem to bring a pretty strong premium. What I find interesting is how differently mileage is viewed on 996T vs 997T. A 50k mile 996T is considered relatively low mile and brings a premium, whereas a 997T with the same mileage get knocked for being high mileage. I have seen a couple of higher mileage (60k+) 997T 6MT cabs sell in the 50s. This one looked like a really solid deal:
2008 6MT, well optioned ($154k sticker), Champion RS98s, 69k miles, sold for $51k.
It showed up on a dealer site (Earth Motor Cars) a week or 2 later for ~$65k and has since sold.
I cannot see this trend continuing. I think the gap has narrowed as close as it ever will. If the 996 values continue to rise, the 997s will too. They are both water cooled, mass produced, and the 997 is just plain better Unless of course the headlights that everyone scorned for so long become a selling point as they are different from everything before and after. Different sometimes equals $$$, just because....
I remember that car. Considered throwing a bid in when I was looking for a vert over the summer. The miles scared me away
Second I'd offer there's a feeling by 996 Turbo owners -- at least some of the owners -- the 996 Turbo is an "investment" that the value of these cars is on the upswing, has been on the upswing for a while now, and will continue to go up, and cars being offered have prices that reflect this belief.
Some examples probably deserve if not all the price that asked for the car a good fraction of it. A low miles well kept car with no mods and fitted with a 6-speed manual will always be a desireable car and its asking price and its actual sale price will reflect this.
The 997 Turbo should be receiving its day in the sun soon. I've already started seeing articles touting the 997 model as the simpler car than the later model and as a result more desireable. Over time articles like this will tend to pump up the market for 997 cars including the Turbo.
I hope it is OK that I chimed in but I do have a 2004 996 turbo cab with 11.4K miles, White with all tan leather. I need to free up one spot in my garage for something fun. Stock except for the alpine touch screen with Navigation. Has both the Turbo wheels and tires and another set of chrome aftermarket wheels with tires in excellent condition and also includes the optional hard top.
If you want a collector this is a good opportunity. Please PM me and I will follow up with a full set of photos. I would also be interested in hearing about any interesting trades.
That's simply not true. Intelligently modded cars are just that, and it's easy to figure out the difference. Hack jobs are obvious. Also, servicing isn't modding. A guy with a stock car could just as easily blend oils too. Service is one of the easiest things to go over if the car has proper reciepts.
I like your broad, sweeping generalizations. Owner serviced cars are the worst? Lol, I change the oil in mine with Porsche parts and Mobil 1 oil only. I change the drain plug crush washer every other time because it doesn't leak, which is what it is there to prevent....not to prevent spontaneous combustion as you make it out to be
I like changing my oil because it allows me to get under the car and inspect everything for any other potential issues while I'm down there going over the car with a fine toothed comb.
I would wager that the guy who mods his car has spent more time researching proper maintenance and service requirements than the average stock car guy who in general seems petrified of anything needing work or repair on these cars.
From my research in recently making the decision to buy a 996tt w 25k miles the difference in comparable cars was about 20-25K to step up to a 997 that was similar in options and condition.
There were many 997s in the 60k range but as mostly have said they were either high mileage or tip. The ones I did personally look at that were lower in the 997 price range were not equipped like I wanted, had accident history, or just weren't that nice.
To get a 6 speed in good condition with good history you are looking at the 70-75 range.
I personally dont any 996 platform. To me they are the ugliest cars Porsche ever made. I don't like the Interior and I don't like the headlights. Sorry guys but I probably would never own one of those cars.
Nothing like sharing a positive thought First Thing with the rest of the club....
Hey guys Al's right!
I just went down to my garage and took one look at my POS 996 and pushed it out to the curb to be picked up with the rest of my trash on Monday.
Thanks Al, what do you think I should do with my crappy BRABUS sedan?
Originally Posted by Al Nunez
I beg to differ, I personally think any 996 platform is undesirable. They are the ugliest cars Porsche ever made. Interiors are horrific. That front with those headlights, forget it. Sorry folks but you can keep those cars.
Response accepted... You have got to be a good guy, heck you have over 300 posts on this site. Just remember next time you are having one of those mornings, no more coffee and all Porsches are good.
Who would have thought that the RS America and the 1994 Speedster would be considered collectors today and I did buy a speedster new for 72K at the time.
My 2003 C4S Coupe was a real good looking, fast car with 460 HP (normally aspirated) that would make your hands sweat when you drove it.
In 2004 the TT cab, coupe (415 HP with 415 lbs. of Torque) and the X50 (445 HP) were big deals in the entire car market let alone to Porsche.
You have to look at the entire lineage to appreciate a fine (and fun) automobile that really continues to get better and has stood the test of time.
Lets appreciate the 996 just simply for the role it has played in the development process to get us here today.
Hope your day got better and I am going to push my car off the curb and back into the garage.
Funny you mentioned the RS America. I had a 1993 zero delete 18k miles unmolested car. Parked next to a 1997 993 S. Sold both the RS and the S. The 964 body line to me is plain beautiful! 993 to me looked like a half *** designed car. The 997 body line is gorgeous. 991 even more. Sadly, I still feel strongly about the 996.
The 964 body line to me is plain beautiful! 993 to me looked like a half *** designed car. The 997 body line is gorgeous. 991 even more.
Agree, the 964 is a timeless beauty.
The 993 on the other hand is really a half *** designed car, Harm Lagaay admitted it as such because there was simply no budget to do it right.
But since it is the last air cooled, it doesn't matter. People love it all the same.
I think the 997 brought the 911 to ultimate perfection in design and I doubt it will ever be surpassed. Certainly not by the 991 of which I feel Porsche took a wrong turn somewhere.
im not sure I agree with this - I just bought an ultra clean 50k mile 997 6spd turbo for the low (ultra low) 60s. To me 50k miles isn't an issue on this car, and is still low miles in my world - is it low miles for most porsche guys, maybe not but it's certainly not abused and 180k miles.
What I will say is there is a HUGE swing between people who are selling their cars and people who are listing their cars - there are some guys who are listing their cars (even on this site) for 20-30k above market, sorry guys your used 35k mile 997 turbo 6spd isn't worth 88k$.
When I was looking at comparable 996 or 997s with similar miles the 996s were with in 10-15k of my budget for a car, and for that money it was a 997.1 all day long. I will say that I would have opted for a 996 over a 997.2 though.
The cars are out there, and right now the market is softening a bit on high line cars, so it's not a bad time to be buying.
Originally Posted by shaunt
From my research in recently making the decision to buy a 996tt w 25k miles the difference in comparable cars was about 20-25K to step up to a 997 that was similar in options and condition.
There were many 997s in the 60k range but as mostly have said they were either high mileage or tip. The ones I did personally look at that were lower in the 997 price range were not equipped like I wanted, had accident history, or just weren't that nice.
To get a 6 speed in good condition with good history you are looking at the 70-75 range.
im not sure I agree with this - I just bought an ultra clean 50k mile 997 6spd turbo for the low (ultra low) 60s. To me 50k miles isn't an issue on this car, and is still low miles in my world - is it low miles for most porsche guys, maybe not but it's certainly not abused and 180k miles.
What I will say is there is a HUGE swing between people who are selling their cars and people who are listing their cars - there are some guys who are listing their cars (even on this site) for 20-30k above market, sorry guys your used 35k mile 997 turbo 6spd isn't worth 88k$.
When I was looking at comparable 996 or 997s with similar miles the 996s were with in 10-15k of my budget for a car, and for that money it was a 997.1 all day long. I will say that I would have opted for a 996 over a 997.2 though.
The cars are out there, and right now the market is softening a bit on high line cars, so it's not a bad time to be buying.
You didn't say what year/color/options/mods your car has.. so lets assume the worst.. its an '07 without PCCB and is stock.. that means 5500 miles per year.. far below avg.
There are arguments on both sides of this situation.. some would scoff at the 50K.. while others (like myself) would rather have a car that was driven more than 1-2k miles per year and was well maintained.
If you paid in the low 60's then you paid about 10K less than I paid for my car which is an '07 with 34K miles. But with about 30K in mods and in a relatively un-common color and with PCCB. I bought my car in april and my price was par for the market when comparing other 997tt's.
There are deals to be had out there. We will see prices dip as the cooler months approach.. only time will tell if the 997tt's hold their value or appreciate.
We're on the same page, the point was simply that the difference between cars that are selling and cars that are listed is pretty high. I intentionally chose to NOT buy a PCCB car, I planned on road racing and tracking the car and wasn't willing to deal with that cost.
The best example is the 2005 turbo S that's listed, which granted is a rare 996, but it's with in a few k$ of what I paid for my 997. I guess maybe for a porsche collector it'd be fine, but for anyone shopping in the 50-70k or even 50-60k$ range they aren't buying that 996 over a 997.
Unlike most, I actually really like the 996, I like driving them and I like the way they look - in many ways they are more raw than the 997 and I think they are attractive well designed cars, but for the money the 997 is the better buy right now. Just a few years ago when 996s were 1/2 the price of 997s it was a different story.
My car without PCCB had a 139k$ sticker which is pretty high for a non PCCB 2007 car. Car is completely stock, again by choice - there were cars in the low 70s with 30-40k$ of turbo kits and wheels and this that and the other, wasn't worth it to me. Cars in the 69-73 range with PCCB and varying miles - I've had the 1000whp GT-R, the 1000whp supra, I've done the big power game, I don't need to go down that road again.
as for no PCCB - I went back and forth on this, I love the idea of PCCB for street use... but I'm not willing to deal with the considerable down sides (in my opinion) and certainly am not willing to pay the 5-7k$ premium most PCCB cars command.
I agree with you, I'd far rather have a vehicle that's been driven and maintained than an 11k$ car that has dried and rotting seals.
Originally Posted by 997TTEQNY
You didn't say what year/color/options/mods your car has.. so lets assume the worst.. its an '07 without PCCB and is stock.. that means 5500 miles per year.. far below avg.
There are arguments on both sides of this situation.. some would scoff at the 50K.. while others (like myself) would rather have a car that was driven more than 1-2k miles per year and was well maintained.
If you paid in the low 60's then you paid about 10K less than I paid for my car which is an '07 with 34K miles. But with about 30K in mods and in a relatively un-common color and with PCCB. I bought my car in april and my price was par for the market when comparing other 997tt's.
There are deals to be had out there. We will see prices dip as the cooler months approach.. only time will tell if the 997tt's hold their value or appreciate.
We're on the same page, the point was simply that the difference between cars that are selling and cars that are listed is pretty high. I intentionally chose to NOT buy a PCCB car, I planned on road racing and tracking the car and wasn't willing to deal with that cost.
The best example is the 2005 turbo S that's listed, which granted is a rare 996, but it's with in a few k$ of what I paid for my 997. I guess maybe for a porsche collector it'd be fine, but for anyone shopping in the 50-70k or even 50-60k$ range they aren't buying that 996 over a 997.
Unlike most, I actually really like the 996, I like driving them and I like the way they look - in many ways they are more raw than the 997 and I think they are attractive well designed cars, but for the money the 997 is the better buy right now. Just a few years ago when 996s were 1/2 the price of 997s it was a different story.
My car without PCCB had a 139k$ sticker which is pretty high for a non PCCB 2007 car. Car is completely stock, again by choice - there were cars in the low 70s with 30-40k$ of turbo kits and wheels and this that and the other, wasn't worth it to me. Cars in the 69-73 range with PCCB and varying miles - I've had the 1000whp GT-R, the 1000whp supra, I've done the big power game, I don't need to go down that road again.
as for no PCCB - I went back and forth on this, I love the idea of PCCB for street use... but I'm not willing to deal with the considerable down sides (in my opinion) and certainly am not willing to pay the 5-7k$ premium most PCCB cars command.
I agree with you, I'd far rather have a vehicle that's been driven and maintained than an 11k$ car that has dried and rotting seals.
I think you are spot on..definitely on the same page..
My car is relegated to street-duty only so, the PCCB was a good fit for me but understand your POV there as well.
07-22-2016, 04:55 AM
Unless of course the headlights that everyone scorned for so long become a selling point as they are different from everything before and after. Different sometimes equals $$$, just because....
