997.2 burning oil?

[Gpjli]

In all the pix I have seen of the 09 the tailpipes have been VERY sooty. Wonder what the deal is with this.....

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[mdrums]

Originally Posted by nucjd

Good info mdrums. Thanks.

Thanks, trying to help...hit the medal on the top right and give me some rep....thanks!

[nucjd]

Originally Posted by mdrums

Thanks, trying to help...hit the medal on the top right and give me some rep....thanks!

You got it mdrums

[500]

Originally Posted by mdrums

Guys...STOP....09 (997.2S..3.8L) engines are vastly different than the 2005-08 (997.1S 3.8L) engine...OK?

When I 1st got my 2009 C2S in late September 08 I burned a quart of oil in around 700-800 miles. I burned another quart by 2500 miles and I burned .75 of a quart at 3000 miles.

I topped off at 3000 miles and now at 4100 miles I have burned a tad over 1/2 a quart. Oil burning is getting less and less. I did an oil and filter change at 2500 miles.

When you check your oil level in the new 2009 Carrera S be sure you are on a extremely flat surface like your garage floor. The gas station or Mall parking lot is not flat enough fore and aft or side to side and the level reading is extremely sensitive...EXTREMELY SENSITIVE...should I say this again?

Now, after you get home and check your oil and if reads it is at the lowest level, turn the car off and let it sit for 3-4 minutes. Then crank it back up and check the level again and it will show it is 1/2 full. Weird I know but this is something I have been trying to work with at the dealer level. The dealer noticed this too and people are over filling their new 2009 Carrera's!...not good. If I do not get a straight answer from my dealer by next week I will call PCNA.

Another issue that I have noticed with my 2009 Carrera S is a lot of black soot on the tail pipes...more than any other Porsche or other brand of car I have ever owned. My dealer is very concerned about this so I have an appointment at the dealer Monday morning to leave the car with them.

Nice to hear you're not getting the "they all do that" routine.

[W4DX]

Please take a look closely to the areas around the rear bumper for any specks of oil around the areas of the exhaust tips and clears towards the middle and the side of the rear bumper. Obviously soot forming on the bottom of the exhaust tip mostly. This is especially obvious with Carrara white.

Usage approx 1 quarts per 1000k on this 997.2 all the way around if you analyze this closely.

Did call PCNA a few weeks ago. What they essentially did was to call around the different dealearships and ask around as to what their experience was.

A study on 997.2 oil usage is likely important feedback to Porsche.

[adias]

Originally Posted by W4DX

Please take a look closely to the areas around the rear bumper for any specks of oil around the areas of the exhaust tips and clears towards the middle and the side of the rear bumper. Obviously soot forming on the bottom of the exhaust tip mostly. This is especially obvious with Carrara white.

Usage approx 1 quarts per 1000k on this 997.2 all the way around if you analyze this closely.

Did call PCNA a few weeks ago. What they essentially did was to call around the different dealearships and ask around as to what their experience was.

A study on 997.2 oil usage is likely important feedback to Porsche.

We are all waiting to see what is the oil consumption of the DFI engine. On the M96/M97 engines, oil consumption of 1qt/1000 miles was acceptable. Also, engines that are used in short runs and stop to cool down and run at low revs most of the time, tend to use more oil.

[Gundo]

Each and every one of you should REALLY get in your dealers face on this. Talk to the GM, talk to PCNA, get in touch with the regional manager.

Here's why:

My 997.1 S motor burns 1 qt every 750 miles like clock-work.

Yes, it's a different motor. And guess what? It sounds like 997.2 consistently uses more oil than 997.1 motors based on the above preliminary evidence.

Yes, soot accumulates on the bumper and can stain light colored paints

No, PCNA is not going to help you unless you burn more oil than spec. In a 997.1 motor, the spec is ridiculous - 1 liter per 1000 kms. translation 1.05 qts per 620 miles is ACCEPTABLE. I've gone back and forth with PCNA several times.

There is no reliable oil consumption test the dealer can run. They will monitor your oil usage for 1 year, and they are the only ones that should be adding oil - in their service bay, and recorded in the computer for mileage and volume of oil added.

I'll add that if you burn 1 qt per 1,000 miles, there is never a need to change your oil, as after 15,000 miles, you'll have changed the oil twice (15 quarts) instead of just the single time recommended by the factory.

I ran a oil usage survey a while back on Rennlist, PCNA read about it in the forum and denied my scheduled test for a compression and leakdown test. Be very careful about your posts in these forums. Results were that 5% of 997.1 cars used as much oil as me.

[Minok]

Originally Posted by Gundo

I'll add that if you burn 1 qt per 1,000 miles, there is never a need to change your oil, as after 15,000 miles, you'll have changed the oil twice (15 quarts) instead of just the single time recommended by the factory.

I'm not sure one can make that claim categorically. While it is true that you have put that amount of clean oil into the engine in that time period, it does not hold that all of the dirt and debris generated in the engine during that time also gets sent out of the exhaust pipe with the oil that is burned off.

No matter how much oil you burn, I'd still put in completely fresh oil and filter at the recommended intervals.

[tejoe]

I'll bet anybody that "Sharky" knows a hell of a lot more than I do, but I can't buy any amateur's Porsche consuming a quart every 1000 miles or so and being told this is okay; and that soot thing above - my cleaning rag doesn't get dirty when I wipe the inside of the tips when I wash my car - I'd be quite concerned also.

[JonC4S]

Originally Posted by Gundo

Each and every one of you should REALLY get in your dealers face on this. Talk to the GM, talk to PCNA, get in touch with the regional manager.

Here's why:

My 997.1 S motor burns 1 qt every 750 miles like clock-work.

Yes, it's a different motor. And guess what? It sounds like 997.2 consistently uses more oil than 997.1 motors based on the above preliminary evidence.

Yes, soot accumulates on the bumper and can stain light colored paints

No, PCNA is not going to help you unless you burn more oil than spec. In a 997.1 motor, the spec is ridiculous - 1 liter per 1000 kms. translation 1.05 qts per 620 miles is ACCEPTABLE. I've gone back and forth with PCNA several times.

There is no reliable oil consumption test the dealer can run. They will monitor your oil usage for 1 year, and they are the only ones that should be adding oil - in their service bay, and recorded in the computer for mileage and volume of oil added.

I'll add that if you burn 1 qt per 1,000 miles, there is never a need to change your oil, as after 15,000 miles, you'll have changed the oil twice (15 quarts) instead of just the single time recommended by the factory.

I ran a oil usage survey a while back on Rennlist, PCNA read about it in the forum and denied my scheduled test for a compression and leakdown test. Be very careful about your posts in these forums. Results were that 5% of 997.1 cars used as much oil as me.

I feel your pain! (or at least your annoyance!)

I realize these are different engines, but the oil consumption threads all read pretty similar.

I think I have read about every oil consumption thread there is on 996/997.1 and 997.2, and is just plain seems some burn oil and some do not. Some suggest aggressive breakin, others talk about more careful breakin, but some who have had several P-cars have had high and low oil consumption.

I paid for a leakdown and compression test, and had very good results on both. Then replaced the AOS just on a chance it might help. Still soot and droplets of soot/condensation (in cooler weather). The latest TSB I have seen for a 997 actually allows 1.6 qts/622 miles. I am thinking of paying to have the cylinders scoped when I replace plugs.

The only other thing I have heard of checking is valve seals, but I have no idea how or what this would involve. (Obviously I am not a mechanic--just a chemical engineer)

[Gpjli]

Jon you do not say what model you have, what milage you are at or how much oil your car is using. I can tell you that generally leaking valve seals cause smoking at start up as cylinders burn of oil that has accumulated due to leakage.

[JonC4S]

Originally Posted by Gpjli

Jon you do not say what model you have, what milage you are at or how much oil your car is using. I can tell you that generally leaking valve seals cause smoking at start up as cylinders burn of oil that has accumulated due to leakage.

oops. sorry about that I did not want to intrude too much on a 997 thread, since I have an 03 996 with about 45K (purchased with 23 K) on it, but the thread was so much like most of the others I have seen I just chimed in. I have been burning more or less than 1 qt per 600 miles or so. Thanks for the note on the valve seals. I have no smoke at any time. Seems to run great, more soot on left side than right, but good leakdown and compression results. Seems like I need to just get used to this.

[Gpjli]

Originally Posted by JonC4S

oops. sorry about that I did not want to intrude too much on a 997 thread, since I have an 03 996 with about 45K (purchased with 23 K) on it, but the thread was so much like most of the others I have seen I just chimed in. I have been burning more or less than 1 qt per 600 miles or so. Thanks for the note on the valve seals. I have no smoke at any time. Seems to run great, more soot on left side than right, but good leakdown and compression results. Seems like I need to just get used to this.

I have a 06 997 w 18K miles. I also have somewhat more soot on left than right. Porsche sent regional mastertech and did compression, leak down and scoping. He reported finding no fault and that plugs were burning evenly. No explanation. I will say that my oil consumption dropped fron 1/800 to 1/3-4K miles over the first 8k miles or so. I wish i knew the answer. I suspect it is a function of "stacked tolerances", ie random clearances conspiring to create oil usage. My advise at this point would be to drive it and not to worry. I'm betting it runs fine.

[boomasta]

my 09 c4s consumed about half quart in 1800 miles since new.

out of those miles, i would say 1600 were highway miles,if that means any difference

[mdrums]

Porsche will not do anything about their cars burning oil UNTIL you are burning 1.6 qts every 600 miles. This is straight from Porsche. My 09 was in for Porsche oil burning an was put on the watch program for this. I burned 1 qt in 1248 miles.