AH and AWE mufflers?

[Diablo79]

Anyone live in NJ that has AfterHours mufflers or AWE mufflers on their 997S that I can hear or get a drive in? I'm trying to decide between AfterHours and AWE, and also whether to bother with cats or not. I've heard both on video, and the After Hours mufflers sound really good, but I am always a fan of "in person" demos. PM me or email me (njcarguy1077@yahoo.com) thanks! Ohan

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[Mike/A.W.E.]

We are located just north of Philly. You should stop by for a visit and I will gladly give you a proper tour.

[Diablo79]

Hi Mike. thanks for that. I actually just got off the phone with John a few minutes ago, asking if you guys had any cars there to do a drive in. Tough that you guys are only open during the week, that's why I was looking for a local member that I can access on a weeknight or a weekend. if I can make time during the week though, I'll surely stop by!

Ohan

[Dave07997S]

2 totally different sounds comaring the AWE to the AH mufflers. The AWE is much more subdued than the AH mufflers as the AH mufflers are really just 2 mini glass packs per muffler. They really are just one step behind having the muffler bypass. The AWE's are more civilized in sound and won't draw as much attention.

Dave

[Diablo79]

Thanks for the feedback...that's exactly why I want to hear the two.

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

2 totally different sounds comaring the AWE to the AH mufflers. The AWE is much more subdued than the AH mufflers as the AH mufflers are really just 2 mini glass packs per muffler. They really are just one step behind having the muffler bypass. The AWE's are more civilized in sound and won't draw as much attention.

Dave

[jabed92694]

So is there any difference in the AWE mufflers compared to just stock? I am looking to replace just my mufflers but if it's just as quiet as stock then maybe I shouldn't bother.


Jon

[Ian_UK1]

Originally Posted by jabed92694

So is there any difference in the AWE mufflers compared to just stock? I am looking to replace just my mufflers but if it's just as quiet as stock then maybe I shouldn't bother.


Jon

The AWE mufflers are not much louder than stock by themselves. They're designed to sound 'right' with AWE's 200-cell cats. The stock cats do almost as much silencing of the exhaust as the stock mufflers do. Replacing them with free-flow cats makes things much louder and the AWE mufflers really wake up in this configuration!

Mufflers such as AH and Tubi are designed to sound 'right' with the extra silencing the stock cats provide and would be way too loud for many people with free-flow cats.

If you're looking for a performance gain from aftermarket exhaust parts, you need to go for 100/200-cell cats on a 3.8. Well-designed cats will give you 15+ wheel HP by themselves. The 3.8 picks up very little from just changing the mufflers (except for the change in sound). The 3.6 on the other hand seems to typically pick up 8-10 wheel HP from a muffler swap alone but shows less benefit from free-flow cats.

[XLR82XS]

Originally Posted by jabed92694

So is there any difference in the AWE mufflers compared to just stock? I am looking to replace just my mufflers but if it's just as quiet as stock then maybe I shouldn't bother.


Jon

If just mufflers than AH is the way to go. I have them on my 996 C4 with stock cats and it sounds PERFECT!

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by jabed92694

So is there any difference in the AWE mufflers compared to just stock? I am looking to replace just my mufflers but if it's just as quiet as stock then maybe I shouldn't bother.


Jon

Jon, I did the AWE mufflers first on my car before anything. They are a little louder than OEM with a deeper tone than OEM. As Ian states, until you add the 200cpi cats to the equation they are really quite docile. Add the cats and they sing. I jut swapped out my AWE's for Borlas on my 997S with 200cpi cats and X51 headers. The sound is just short of a GT3 cup car. I love it now.

Dave

[Ian_UK1]

Some questions for Dave07997S

I'm really interested in the intake mods you're doing and the effect they'll have on the car. Maybe you should start a new thread on this? A couple of questions you may need to consider:

1) What will you do with the electronic/vacuum control mechanism for the resonance flap in the second cross piece of the stock manifold? The X-51 dispenses with this completely and I assume the revised electronics for the DME delete the control function too. Will it give CELs if the flap isn't there?

2) Will the larger throttle body work with the standard control unit at all or just throw CELs and put the unit into limp home mode? There is an expected range of airflow for any given throttle plate angle (this is how the car can still run without the MAF connected) and I assume these values will be radically different with the bigger throttle plate.

3) There are several changes to the wiring loom that have to be done as part of the X-51 install routine all to do with the induction side. If you make these changes, will the standard control unit program still work? I think some of the pins have a re-defined function for X-51.

4) Given the above, will you need the X-51 DME update to make the thing work at all? If it is required where can it be sourced?

5) Is it all worth it for 10-12BHP at best? (For the sake of the debate, I'm assuming intake=10-12BHP Heads=5-7BHP and exhaust headers=5-7BHP for a full X-51)

Would value your insights and opinions on the above

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by Ian_UK1

Some questions for Dave07997S

I'm really interested in the intake mods you're doing and the effect they'll have on the car. Maybe you should start a new thread on this? A couple of questions you may need to consider:

1) What will you do with the electronic/vacuum control mechanism for the resonance flap in the second cross piece of the stock manifold? The X-51 dispenses with this completely and I assume the revised electronics for the DME delete the control function too. Will it give CELs if the flap isn't there?

2) Will the larger throttle body work with the standard control unit at all or just throw CELs and put the unit into limp home mode? There is an expected range of airflow for any given throttle plate angle (this is how the car can still run without the MAF connected) and I assume these values will be radically different with the bigger throttle plate.

3) There are several changes to the wiring loom that have to be done as part of the X-51 install routine all to do with the induction side. If you make these changes, will the standard control unit program still work? I think some of the pins have a re-defined function for X-51.

4) Given the above, will you need the X-51 DME update to make the thing work at all? If it is required where can it be sourced?

5) Is it all worth it for 10-12BHP at best? (For the sake of the debate, I'm assuming intake=10-12BHP Heads=5-7BHP and exhaust headers=5-7BHP for a full X-51)

Would value your insights and opinions on the above

Ian, I don't plan on doing the heads, just the intake manifold and the throttle body along with the X51 intake. According to some tuners I have been in touch with this is a very cost effective way of getting 98% of the gain of a X51 package with a fraction of the cost. From my understanding the intake manifold can be retrofitted with no issues. You have brought up some interesting points and I will defiitely have to ask some more questions.

As far as the wiring loom I have been told just the MAF wire requires an extension and the MAF meter should be fine as far min/max voltage. Also, RSS plans on offering a 997GT3 throttle body for the 997S using their plenum, so maybe min this won't be an issue. There are several aftermarket tuners that have tunes for X51 cars, I would rather use those than the OEM X51 tune anyway. Issue would be can I load these DME tunes with the non X51 tune already in place. That's the question I would need answered. Also FVD is capable of providing a tune they said for this configuration I believe as they will custom tune software depending on what's needed.

I looked at the technical bulletin that had the complete parts list and to be honest it didnt mention anything about a change over for the wiring harness other than the mass air extension. According to a few that have done just the CAI part of the kit they didn't even use that, they just loosened up the OEM MAF harness and it reached. Although I do plan on adding the extension.

Now when I plan on doing this is a good question...I still need some questions answered and I am still in the process of doing this. However, I have every intention of moving forward providing it doesn't become to much of a malais. It's probably going to cost a little over $2.5k in parts plus tune.

I feel this should probably get me over the 385hp level as the car is equipped with 200cpi cats and would probably offset any loss of hp in not doing the heads which I feel at best is 5hp. From my understanding the heads really just get a cleanup and a stiffer exhaust valve spring for the extra 150rpm.

Ian if you would like to help I would be greatly appreciated with your knowledge and expertise on the subject.

BTW, I think you nailed the muffler call on loudness. The Borla sounds very close to a tubi with just a tad more bass. With 200cpi cats the car just screams...love it.

Look forward to your next post..

Dave

[Ian_UK1]

You have PM

[mdrums]

Originally Posted by jabed92694

So is there any difference in the AWE mufflers compared to just stock? I am looking to replace just my mufflers but if it's just as quiet as stock then maybe I shouldn't bother.


Jon

AWE is just a tad bit louder than stock not much and they sound like stock at idle. I had Fabspeed Max Flo on my 06 and 07 Carrera S and they were just a little louder than AWE and had a nice Cup car like wail type of sound at 5000rpm's and up.
Hope this helps...if you want LOUD they the AH will be the ones, if you want stock like sound AWE and Fabspeed is a touch louder than AWE.

[Cattman]

AH pipes will turn heads everywhere you go. If you don't want to be noticed, then they are definitely not for you. They are loud loud loud, inside and out, and I love them, but they're not for everyone.