tiptronic=crap

[rockstardoc]

Ehhh...the debate between auto/PDK vs. manual will never end. All I know is that someone buying a Mercedes S Class or Rolls Royce isn't going to even consider get it with a manual clutch in mind... With that in mind, I just can't understand why people purchase a Porsche 911 and consider the automatic... I guess it's considered a double standard (okay to get manual in sports car, but not okay to get manual in super luxury pampered Mercedes/Rolls Royce). I bet if some of the manual guys here wanted to get their "luxury car" in a manual, most people will be shaking their heads. That's why I shake mine every time a see an automatic sports car. As long as the automatic guys are comfortable with their decisions, who cares what the rest of us think. There's no reason to justify your decisions. It's YOUR decision, and our opinion. If it bothered you guys that much that the hardcore manual guys talk a little "crap" about them, then there's some insecurities there. It's like how many people on these boards talk crap about "riced-out, pimp-my-ride" Porsches. They always ask the question "Why would anyone in their right mind do that to such a nice car"? The 911 is meant to be a true sports car rowing through those gears, finding that friction point, and heel-toe transitions. It's fine if some of you want a more subdued car by getting an automatic, but like I said...it just won't be seen on the same level (for some people). Everytime someone asks why I didn't get a xxx car instead of the Porsche, I don't justify to that person why I got the Porsche because that person's opinion just won't change. So instead of trying to justify the automatic, just enjoy it as it's your choice and let the hardcore guys ramble on.

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[amerlemans]

Originally Posted by rockstardoc

Ehhh...the debate between auto/PDK vs. manual will never end.

All I know is that someone buying a Mercedes S Class or Rolls Royce isn't going to even consider get it with a manual clutch in mind...

With that in mind, I just can't understand why people purchase a Porsche 911 and consider the automatic...

I guess it's considered a double standard (okay to get manual in sports car, but not okay to get manual in super luxury pampered Mercedes/Rolls Royce).

I bet if some of the manual guys here wanted to get their "luxury car" in a manual, most people will be shaking their heads.

That's why I shake mine every time a see an automatic sports car.

As long as the automatic guys are comfortable with their decisions, who cares what the rest of us think. There's no reason to justify your decisions. It's YOUR decision, and our opinion. If it bothered you guys that much that the hardcore manual guys talk a little "crap" about them, then there's some insecurities there.

It's like how many people on these boards talk crap about "riced-out, pimp-my-ride" Porsches. They always ask the question "Why would anyone in their right mind do that to such a nice car"?

The 911 is meant to be a true sports car rowing through those gears, finding that friction point, and heel-toe transitions. It's fine if some of you want a more subdued car by getting an automatic, but like I said...it just won't be seen on the same level (for some people).

Everytime someone asks why I didn't get a xxx car instead of the Porsche, I don't justify to that person why I got the Porsche because that person's opinion just won't change. So instead of trying to justify the automatic, just enjoy it as it's your choice and let the hardcore guys ramble on.

If it was "meant to be" then why in the hell has Porsche built these cars for so many years with Tip/PDK?

So, these "hardcore" guys drive the manual huh? Those same ones with Nav, PW, PL, PS, PB, 165 way power adjustable seats, power moonroof, AC, etc....Now that's rich

btw, I drive a manual but wouldn't in a million years down those that drive a Tip/PDK.

[adias]

Originally Posted by amerlemans

... So, these "hardcore" guys drive the manual huh? Those same ones with Nav, PW, PL, PS, PB, 165 way power adjustable seats, power moonroof, AC, etc....Now that's rich
.

Well stated.

[mdrums]

All I can say is I probably have the most experience on these boards than anyone with Tiptronic. Since I do not have a entire left leg anymore I was forced to buy 2 Carra S cars with Tiptronic. I tracked the heck out of these cars. I can say that even with the Tip downfalls I was faster around a track than most others with a 6 speed. To track a manual properly takes a lot of cordination and skill.

I now drive a C2S PDK and this car is even faster with proper rev matching down shifts and afster up shifts than any manual.

I have had manuals in the past with my Vette's and a couple of other Porsche's. I will say that if I had 2 legs i would most certainly buy a manual over a 6 speed..but...the Tip is not as bad especially on the track as most of you all think. Now that I have PDK it would be a hard decesion to make between manual and PDK for me since I love technology. I do not feel disconected in anyway from driving a car with PDK.

[T33]

Before PDK, nobody said anything this bad about the Tip. It's not fair to put down the tip just because a better technology has been developed. A tip in a PCar is still an amazing drive compared to other sports cars.

[camhabib]

Are we forgetting that at the very highest level of the sport, almost all cars are of the "automatic" style? Does that exclude them from the "sport car" category?

[rockstardoc]

Originally Posted by amerlemans

btw, I drive a manual but wouldn't in a million years down those that drive a Tip/PDK.

Sorry, I don't down the people... just the car










...OK, I'm kidding.

Like I said, nothing wrong with getting an automatic...it just doesn't make sense to ME. It may make sense to others...but not ME. Just like it doesn't make sense to me when guys in 2wd trucks lift them and treat them like a 4x4 So if anyone is offended by an opinion, that's unfortunate. I agree that some posts here are a little harsh and may have been expressed differently, but speaking for myself... I buy a car what it's intended for. Luxury for luxury, sports cars for speed, and 4x4s/SUV for off-roading and all around utility and hauling the bikes.

[jherbias]

Originally Posted by camhabib

Are we forgetting that at the very highest level of the sport, almost all cars are of the "automatic" style? Does that exclude them from the "sport car" category?

You mean "semi-automatic." The driver still needs to shift gears, except it's done through electronics as opposed to the driver mechanically doing it himself or herself. Fully automatic transmissions disappeared from F1 around 2004.

Sports cars and race cars are two completely different things. Racecars are supposed to be fast and easy to drive at the limit. This is one of the major reasons why people (unfairly) bash the Nissan GTR. It is missing that "raw" feeling that heavy steering and a 6-speed stick offer, despite the fact it is one of the easiest cars to drive stupid fast on and off the track.

[rockstardoc]

Originally Posted by amerlemans

If it was "meant to be" then why in the hell has Porsche built these cars for so many years with Tip/PDK?

So that the rich housewives can drive them down Rodeo Drive. It's all about broadening the market to more buyers.

Before Lamborghini came out with the E-Gear, Kobe Bryant had a custom made automatic Lamborghini for his wife since she couldn't drive manual.

[Verde]

Bingo.
BTW, I'll offer a slightly altered transmission taxonomy that may help change the complexion of the arguments. (And, FWIW, I think these arguments are just dandy. There have been many other threads in which people criticize others' choices - wheels, wings, colors, stripes, interiors, etc. But no other issue has so many people playing defense of crying foul. Interesting).
An alternate cut may be between gearbox and torque converter (slush box to the less defensive crowds). Either 6-speed or PDK are outstanding pieces and consistent with the design of a sports car. It's only the torque converter P-cars (R.I.P.) that seem inconsistent with the overall design or mission.
Separately, I don't really think that sport- or race-cars are defined by being easier to drive on the edge. If that were true, 911's would be out of the running. They are anything but easy at the edge - the challenge that a rear-engine design poses. But sports- and race-cars are those whose edge comes at extremely high levels - of speed, g's, braking, handling. Easy or not, isn't that what we all love?

Originally Posted by rockstardoc

So that the rich housewives can drive them down Rodeo Drive. It's all about broadening the market to more buyers.

Before Lamborghini came out with the E-Gear, Kobe Bryant had a custom made automatic Lamborghini for his wife since she couldn't drive manual.

[amerlemans]

Originally Posted by rockstardoc

So that the rich housewives can drive them down Rodeo Drive. It's all about broadening the market to more buyers.

Before Lamborghini came out with the E-Gear, Kobe Bryant had a custom made automatic Lamborghini for his wife since she couldn't drive manual.

You totally contradicted yourself. If the car was specifically "meant to be" manual....the manufacturer simply would not produce an auto.

Case in point See the Z06/ZR1 vs the regular C5/C6 Vettes. See the GT2 and GT3 vs the C2/C4(s).

btw - you don't have to be rich to drive a 911.

[dlchasen]

I drive a 6MT, but I can think of at least 5 good reasons to go with an automatic or PDK:
1. Significant amount of driving is done in heavy traffic conditions;
2. Second driver needs it;
3. Tracking the car;
4. Physical impairment; and,
5. Already have a manual and want something different.

[stevepow]

Originally Posted by dlchasen

I drive a 6MT, but I can think of at least 5 good reasons to go with an automatic or PDK:
1. Significant amount of driving is done in heavy traffic conditions;
2. Second driver needs it;
3. Tracking the car;
4. Physical impairment; and,
5. Already have a manual and want something different.

Or there you go with Think and Reason - that's cheating and has no place in this discussion.

[jherbias]

Originally Posted by Verde

Bingo.
BTW, I'll offer a slightly altered transmission taxonomy that may help change the complexion of the arguments. (And, FWIW, I think these arguments are just dandy. There have been many other threads in which people criticize others' choices - wheels, wings, colors, stripes, interiors, etc. But no other issue has so many people playing defense of crying foul. Interesting).
An alternate cut may be between gearbox and torque converter (slush box to the less defensive crowds). Either 6-speed or PDK are outstanding pieces and consistent with the design of a sports car. It's only the torque converter P-cars (R.I.P.) that seem inconsistent with the overall design or mission.
Separately, I don't really think that sport- or race-cars are defined by being easier to drive on the edge. If that were true, 911's would be out of the running. They are anything but easy at the edge - the challenge that a rear-engine design poses. But sports- and race-cars are those whose edge comes at extremely high levels - of speed, g's, braking, handling. Easy or not, isn't that what we all love?

I should have said "relatively easy to drive at the limit."

BTW paddle shifters were discovered "by accident" by John Bernard when he wanted to make his F1 cars narrower (for Ferrari), rather than looking for quicker shifts.

[dlchasen]

Originally Posted by stevepow

Or there you go with Think and Reason - that's cheating and has no place in this discussion.

I'll try to remember that for future postings

_______________
Don

'07 Volvo S60R
'07 BMW 328 xi
'08 MB SL 550
'07 C2S
'06 BMW 650 ci (gone)