tiptronic=crap

[akim47]

Generally... and i stress generally, people seem to enjoy manual because of the sensation of additional control over the car... whether or not it's true, it is the perceieved notion. For most of us though, it would be somewhat ignorant to say that we are all about the visceral feel and challenge of driving a 911 and that that can be only acheived through a manual transmission... If that's the case, go challenge yourself on the tough track or a mountain road sans PSM... that's true "feel"... personally driving a car with some assistance such as PSM or DTC or whatever your make calls it, does not necessarily reduce the excitement or thrill of driving, especially on a track. I just got back from a track day done 100% with my dynamic traction control on, and I had a blast of a time. I also know that I posted better times and am a better driver because of it. I do not feel like any less of a man, and did not feel any less connected to the road. To say otherwise would be fooling myself. The car is not any less of a sports car. Does tip take away some feel of the car? Yes. Does it remove all enjoyment? I can't say, but it'd probably still be better than a Camry. So before you go and trash someone's decision, make sure it's for the right reason. Basically, check yourself... Have you ever played golf with the guy that's okay, but not great... what's he playing with? Forged blades w/ 7.0 rifles, 7 deg driver with x-stiff 90 gram shaft, and a 3 wood with a head the size of a spoon, while loosing a whole box of pro-v's... lol... and he cant even break 80... claims he LOVES his clubs because of the "feel"... well... he aint feeling somethin alright... i'm happier shooting 70's w/ my cavity backs and 10 deg 460cc... Same thing, before you tell me I have to use xxx club, or xxx transmission.... can you really back it up?

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[lakerholic]

Originally Posted by akim47

Generally... and i stress generally, people seem to enjoy manual because of the sensation of additional control over the car... whether or not it's true, it is the perceieved notion. For most of us though, it would be somewhat ignorant to say that we are all about the visceral feel and challenge of driving a 911 and that that can be only acheived through a manual transmission... If that's the case, go challenge yourself on the tough track or a mountain road sans PSM... that's true "feel"... personally driving a car with some assistance such as PSM or DTC or whatever your make calls it, does not necessarily reduce the excitement or thrill of driving, especially on a track. I just got back from a track day done 100% with my dynamic traction control on, and I had a blast of a time. I also know that I posted better times and am a better driver because of it. I do not feel like any less of a man, and did not feel any less connected to the road. To say otherwise would be fooling myself. The car is not any less of a sports car. Does tip take away some feel of the car? Yes. Does it remove all enjoyment? I can't say, but it'd probably still be better than a Camry.

So before you go and trash someone's decision, make sure it's for the right reason. Basically, check yourself... Have you ever played golf with the guy that's okay, but not great... what's he playing with? Forged blades w/ 7.0 rifles, 7 deg driver with x-stiff 90 gram shaft, and a 3 wood with a head the size of a spoon, while loosing a whole box of pro-v's... lol... and he cant even break 80... claims he LOVES his clubs because of the "feel"... well... he aint feeling somethin alright... i'm happier shooting 70's w/ my cavity backs and 10 deg 460cc... Same thing, before you tell me I have to use xxx club, or xxx transmission.... can you really back it up?

This post just sums it up for me. Amen, brother.

[rockstardoc]

Originally Posted by amerlemans

You totally contradicted yourself. If the car was specifically "meant to be" manual....the manufacturer simply would not produce an auto.

Not contradicting myself, but just answering your question.

The Porsche 911 is "meant to be manual". The GT3 and Carrera GT still only come in "manual". It's market is geared towards the true enthusiasts.

I'm sure most people hear would be shaking their heads if the GT3 or Carrera GT came with a torque converter.

So to answer your question and NOT contradict myself, the 911 is still "meant to be" manual in it's true purest form...but money talks even for Porsche, and if they can get a larger portion of the market such as those "rich housewives driving down Rodeo drive", then why not make it???

[TripleInboard]

These are street cars, not race cars. Carrera, GT3, GT2, CGT, etc...high performance cars, but street cars none the less. If Porsche had decided to put an automatic gearbox in the GT2, more power to them and to the buyer who bought them. Being that these are street cars, the bottom line is that they are packed with creature comforts and designed to last for years going from point A to point B on the street in the manner the driver desires. Whether that be with a convertible, heated seats, bluetooth for the cell phone, manual or tiptronic, 300 HP or 500HP.....its up to the driver and their purpose for buying the car. If someone purchases a street car instead of a race car, even if their desire is to track the car, they bought it to drive on the street. With that desire comes varying degrees of interests amongst buyers when they are selecting from a list of creature comforts and performance options.

While my 997 is a 6 speed, I have had the pleasure of driving the tiptronic and the pdk cars as well. All versions of the car make for a great street machine and it is fun to observe the engineering that goes into them. You buy what suits your preference and it is simple as that.

[buckwheat986]

Originally Posted by rockstardoc

So to answer your question and NOT contradict myself, the 911 is still "meant to be" manual in it's true purest form...

This is the silliest thing I ever read so far in this thread. You pick one aspect of the car to decide whether or not it belongs in the purest form.

You can then say the same thing about PSM, ABS, PASM, xenons....etc.

[muifast]

Originally Posted by rockstardoc

Not contradicting myself, but just answering your question.

The Porsche 911 is "meant to be manual". The GT3 and Carrera GT still only come in "manual". It's market is geared towards the true enthusiasts.

I'm sure most people hear would be shaking their heads if the GT3 or Carrera GT came with a torque converter.

So to answer your question and NOT contradict myself, the 911 is still "meant to be" manual in it's true purest form...but money talks even for Porsche, and if they can get a larger portion of the market such as those "rich housewives driving down Rodeo drive", then why not make it???

Technology has ways of improving lives and I am sure Formula One was "meant" to use "manuals" as well but some how, the best drivers in the world seem to prefer faster cars over ancient technology to stay true.

Even with Senna, as soon as the sequential shifter came out, he was one of the first ones to adopt the technology and shaved seconds off every lap.

Its certainly more engaging to shift manually, but there are advantages to both and driving a Tip/PDK may be by necessity for some. Personally, I would go crazy if I need to shift manually with a DD in traffic.

The thrill is in the speed, in the technology, in the road feel, and in the passion for the marque and sport.

[amerlemans]

Originally Posted by buckwheat986

This is the silliest thing I ever read so far in this thread. You pick one aspect of the car to decide whether or not it belongs in the purest form.

You can then say the same thing about PSM, ABS, PASM, xenons....etc.

Whats even more silly is he talks of "purists" "meant to be" this or that yet he drives AN ALL WHEEL DRIVE 911. How "pure" is that

[buckwheat986]

Originally Posted by amerlemans

Whats even more silly is he talks of "purists" "meant to be" this or that yet he drives AN ALL WHEEL DRIVE 911. How "pure" is that

touche

[tranquility]

I think some ppl are mixing up the terms. Isn't a tip a *real* A/T because it has a torque converter? I understand that PDK is an automatic *M/T*. So, these are two very different things.

I am definitely not a techno-grouch. I prefer tech advancements and things that seek to increase the car's performance, so if there is an A/T out there that leeches less energy and performs better than a M/T, I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. However, generally speaking, having an A/T increases the weight of the car while being less energy-efficient. In the case of a P-car, wouldn't the perf comparison be PDK>M/T>tip (assuming that the driver can obtain max potential for each tranny)?

...and if you thought that the OP's opening post was offensive, maybe you should check this link out:
http://www.manualversusautomatic.com/comparison.php

[Lockie]

Originally Posted by buckwheat986

This is the silliest thing I ever read so far in this thread. You pick one aspect of the car to decide whether or not it belongs in the purest form.

You can then say the same thing about PSM, ABS, PASM, xenons....etc.

+ one

[Lockie]

Originally Posted by rockstardoc

if they can get a larger portion of the market such as those "rich housewives driving down Rodeo drive", then why not make it???

You have mentioned these housewives in a few of your posts........not sure why it bothers you so much....If they love a Porsche and cant drive a 6 speed .......well good for them for appreciating the car....so what if they have PDK....they are great cars to drive

[rockstardoc]

Originally Posted by amerlemans

Whats even more silly is he talks of "purists" "meant to be" this or that yet he drives AN ALL WHEEL DRIVE 911. How "pure" is that

Okay let's start another thread about 2wd vs. 4wd. It doesn't bother me one bit. And I won't get defensive like some of the "automatic" guys on these boards.

It works for me since I got a good deal on the car. Plus I enjoy that nice wide body. I know it's not the purest car for the real enthusiasts, but to ME I'd rather have a 4S over an automatic whereas someone else would choose the other.

So, enjoy your cars just like I enjoy mine. I have my opinions and you have yours.

It's funny how people like to DIRECTLY poke at others. Now that's an opinion DIRECTED at an individual and not a "topic".

[rockstardoc]

Originally Posted by Lockie

You have mentioned these housewives in a few of your posts........not sure why it bothers you so much....If they love a Porsche and cant drive a 6 speed .......well good for them for appreciating the car....so what if they have PDK....they are great cars to drive

Did I miss something? Where did I say it "bothered" me? I hope I did not offend someone's wife. It was an answer to a question. Porsche made a good move economically by catering to this group of individuals too.

I'm sure some of you balked at the Porsche SUV and now the Porsche sedan...oh, and probably the same for the Boxster. It's all about the market. Porsche isn't as exclusive as it once used to be. Nothing wrong with that.

I guess I have to be more careful on these boards. It seems people get too sensitive here. Not trying to make enemies, but it seems like you can't even state your opinions without getting attacked.

I don't know...what's the proper ettiquette on these boards. Am I supposed to agree to what everyone else thinks?

[DaveC]

Your post is condescending and disingenuously apologetic. Why bother? You have strong opinions that you voiced and others disagreed. Personally I'd close this dead horse of a thread.