Carrera and Carrera S major difference

[europeankar]

Hello people, I just got a 05 C2 tip 1. engine has less HP and torque 2. door sill w/o S and the odometer is black 3. black caliper instead of red 4. tips are different 5. sports chrono comes standard with the S? 6. brakes are bigger?!? If I chip, plenum, and catback exhaust. Can I beat a stock C2S?

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[buckwheat986]

Originally Posted by europeankar

Hello people,

I just got a 05 C2 tip

1. engine has less HP and torque
2. door sill w/o S and the odometer is black
3. black caliper instead of red
4. tips are different
5. sports chrono comes standard with the S?
6. brakes are bigger?!?

If I chip, plenum, and catback exhaust. Can I beat a stock C2S?

depends on driving skills... and course layout....

[PersianGodFatha]

Originally Posted by europeankar

Hello people,

I just got a 05 C2 tip

1. engine has less HP and torque
2. door sill w/o S and the odometer is black
3. black caliper instead of red
4. tips are different
5. sports chrono comes standard with the S?
6. brakes are bigger?!?

If I chip, plenum, and catback exhaust. Can I beat a stock C2S?

you should be able too, a lot of people will say no, but with those mods youll have about the same hp if not more than a stock S... dont forget an Intake

I dont think the brakes are bigger, I think theyr just red so they stand out more and look bigger, Ive asked around and most people say the brakes are the same size...bit im not 100% sure....S or none S still a great car...ENJOY IN GOOD HEALTH

[GS997S]

Not with a Tip, unless of course he has one also. Sport/Chrono is not standard with the S.

[europeankar]

Here is a crappy pic that I took tonight at the car wash.

[PersianGodFatha]

what exactly is this a picture of? your asking about brakes, and engine mods, but this as ceramics it looks like and more mods... is this yours? Im lost

[europeankar]

It's the C2 that I just bought and the caliper was painted to yellow and no ceramics.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by PersianGodFatha

you should be able too, a lot of people will say no, but with those mods youll have about the same hp if not more than a stock S... dont forget an Intake

I dont think the brakes are bigger, I think theyr just red so they stand out more and look bigger, Ive asked around and most people say the brakes are the same size...bit im not 100% sure....S or none S still a great car...ENJOY IN GOOD HEALTH

Dude you arent going to make up 30hp with those mods..at best 10hp. Cat backs are worth nothing on these cars and dont even get started on the plenum. Not to mention the car is a tip...

AWE showed only 11rwhp increase with a full exhaust on a 997 non S, and this includes headers, cats and catback.

Also the brakes are larger on the S vs. the non S. 13" for the S and 12.5 for the non S for the front, and 13" for the S and 11.77" for the rear on the non S.

Dave

[utkinpol]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Dude you arent going to make up 30hp with those mods..at best 10hp. Cat backs are worth nothing on these cars and dont

Dude, click at my vehicle link and look at dyno graph before and after, around 5.5K rpm area specifically.

[Cattman]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Dude you arent going to make up 30hp with those mods..at best 10hp. Cat backs are worth nothing on these cars and dont even get started on the plenum. Not to mention the car is a tip...

AWE showed only 11rwhp increase with a full exhaust on a 997 non S, and this includes headers, cats and catback.
Dave

I think perhaps with a good ECU flash, intake and exhaust he can get close to 20 on a non-S. It's pretty obvious from all the tuners that the larger 3.8L of the S has greater upside, both percentage-wise and net than the non-S.
CATTMAN

[utkinpol]

Originally Posted by Cattman

I think perhaps with a good ECU flash, intake and exhaust he can get close to 20 on a non-S. It's pretty obvious from all the tuners that the larger 3.8L of the S has greater upside, both percentage-wise and net than the non-S.
CATTMAN

So you both choose not to see almost 40 horses gain on my car then, heh?

[Cattman]

Originally Posted by utkinpol

So you both choose not to see almost 40 horses gain on my car then, heh?

Thank you for sharing your graphs, I have reviewed them.

If a dyno sheet is proof of hp, then you've got it- congrats, you should be extremely happy with the results of your mods! 40 HP from about $3k in aftermarket mods would be impressive to say the least.

My issue is that I am not convinced of the results of most dynos, as I know there is significant debate among very educated folks as to the reliability/ variability/ repeatability, etc. of their results. However, I admit that I am certainly not an expert at dynos, and don't know enough about them to swim in the deep end.

I do know that if 1 tuner says their mod adds Xhp, and another tuner says their complimentary mod adds Yhp, that the net result is not simply Xhp+Yhp = new net total hp.

If that were the case, my car is a monster:

My car stock: 355 hp
My mods, with HP as listed by each manufacturer: 27 (plenum), 18 (custom ECU), 12 (EVOMS CAI), 30 (AWE Cats), 12 (AH Mufflers) =99hp, not even including the increase to the RWHP due to the LWFW.

Modded total: 355 + 99= 454hp.
There is no way I am at anywhere close to 454 hp, yet I suspect there's a dyno that will eventually say that I am.

Please understand that I am not trying to say you are wrong, for I trust that your dyno results are what they are. I am a friendly man and don't want to start anything, as I have nothing but respect for you. I am simply skeptical of dyno results, high or low.
CATTMAN

[NorthVan]

No way will a C2 with a chip, plenum, and a set of louder cans make more power then a stock C2S. I don't care what any dyno (butt or real one) says. When manufactures of aftermarket stuff promote them on HP gains, it doesn't mean it is peak HP gains. I have a bunch of these mods and I installed them at different stages, and know which mods I would do again, and which mods I would save my money on. When people ask me how much power I have, I always tell people that I have 355HP, I might have a few more, but to there is no way I am over 380 with the stuff I have.

[utkinpol]

Originally Posted by Cattman

Thank you for sharing your graphs, I have reviewed them.

...

Modded total: 355 + 99= 454hp.
There is no way I am at anywhere close to 454 hp, yet I suspect there's a dyno that will eventually say that I am.

Please understand that I am not trying to say you are wrong, for I trust that your dyno results are what they are. I am a friendly man and don't want to start anything, as I have nothing but respect for you. I am simply skeptical of dyno results, high or low.
CATTMAN

Well, just get your car on a dyno and tell us your story.

I am also reasonably skeptical but, well, as I used same dyno on similar weather conditions on same car with same setup and all pulls did show somewhat in same ballpark - I guess it has to have some relevance to reality whatever that reality is.
I was doing it not for anybody here on this forum, just for myself, so, those numbers are as real as any other numbers. I specifically wanted to see difference between old and new, even if we consider numbers by itself are meaningless, what matters is that shift between what it was and what it is now.

For what it`s worth - it is just a sample of what this list of mods like mine looks like on a dyno chart. To be wrong or right - it is quite difficult as all you can do is to put your setup into dyno - it was done back then and reused now for new pull. If it would be a different dyno I would say - yes, it is possible, but, heck, it`s same shop, almost same outside temperature and humidity, same fans around a car, same gas in a tank - what else can be done?

[utkinpol]

Originally Posted by NorthVan997C2S

No way will a C2 with a chip, plenum, and a set of louder cans make more power then a stock C2S. I don't care what any dyno (butt or real one) says. When manufactures of aftermarket stuff promote them on HP gains, it doesn't mean it is peak HP gains. I have a bunch of these mods and I installed them at different stages, and know which mods I would do again, and which mods I would save my money on. When people ask me how much power I have, I always tell people that I have 355HP, I might have a few more, but to there is no way I am over 380 with the stuff I have.

'way' or 'no way' or if you care or not makes no difference here as that is why dynos were invented for.
take your mods off, run it, put em on, run it again and post your results. it`s that easy and makes much more sense than expressing any undocumented opinions (even if those opinions are correct).

what matters for me is not even that vertical shift but the way how hp/torque curves changed - it`s much more linear now and became more horizontal instead of going up and down. it feels well.