Newly Released GIAC Software for Porsche 997.2 Applications

[Gpjli]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC Correct, the stock software is torque limited and will not make power with additional bolt ons. You need a flash to realize gains with additional hardware. How interesting is this little bomb? All you can do it seems is to make more noise unless you are prepared to void the warranty. You have to assume this is to protect the precious PDK. Porsche does seem intent on keeping the .2 motors running rich. Look at those tailpipes. I'll keep my .1 AWE setup. (I was gonna ne way

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[Austin@GIAC]

Originally Posted by mdrums

GIAC, nice stuff! However I have a question for you about the warranty of my 997.2S if I flashed the ECU.
OK, I took my car into the dealer due to a cracked header weld. Porsche had the service advisor call and ask me if I have tampered with the ECU. This is the second time I have been asked this by the dealer. 1st time was when the car was in for exhaust soot issues and oil burning.

I said no and the service advisor said they would have to check anyway. I asked what does this have to do with a header? I was told by the Porsche rep, my service advisor and PCNA that if I flashed the ECU it could cause the engine to run hotter thus void my warranty. Porsche rep and service advisor personally told me that a ECU flash, intake mods, after market headers which for the 997.2 included cats would void my powertrain warranty and electonic engine managment system warranty.

Thoughts?

Short of reading the entire DME out every single time a car comes in, there is nothing in the PIWIS that will just flash a red light at the dealer. We have a PIWIS in-house for reference. Additionally, if there is a file update, your dealer will have no issues flashing over your GIAC flash. This will simply require to you visit your GIAC dealer for a reflash (we do not charge for reflashes, dealers might charge for labor, though).

[07speed]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

Correct, the stock software is torque limited and will not make power with additional bolt ons. You need a flash to realize gains with additional hardware.

In previous cars I have never added some minor bolt ons(such as intake and exhaust) and have NOT had a small bump in hp. So if I add the fabspeed cold intake and x-pipe in place of the central muffler I will not get a power increase? I would think these two mods alone would bring me to 400hp. Isn't that the purpose of the mass airflow meter..to adjust fuel in response to intake volume and pressure?

[mdrums]

Originally Posted by 07speed

In previous cars I have never added some minor bolt ons(such as intake and exhaust) and have NOT had a small bump in hp. So if I add the fabspeed cold intake and x-pipe in place of the central muffler I will not get a power increase? I would think these two mods alone would bring me to 400hp. Isn't that the purpose of the mass airflow meter..to adjust fuel in response to intake volume and pressure?

Excellent question! Who do you believe these days....all the exhaust and intake, plenum aftermarket vendors claim with a dyno report...LOL... a bump in HP/TQ....now GIAC claims that none of those mods gain anything until you reflash your ECU (which voids your cars warranty).

I would believe that a ECU re-flash based on the mods you have done to your car will be the best HP/TQ increase benefit.

Problem is no one is honest enough to do a real shoot out, controlled, independant with no back pocket payoff's.

If I had money to burn I would do a full exhaust with 200 cell cats, free flow mufflers, intake mods and so forth and have a custom ECU re-flash.

However after you do all this work you probably should have just got a GT3.

[07speed]

Originally Posted by mdrums

Excellent question! Who do you believe these days....all the exhaust and intake, plenum aftermarket vendors claim with a dyno report...LOL... a bump in HP/TQ....now GIAC claims that none of those mods gain anything until you reflash your ECU (which voids your cars warranty).

I would believe that a ECU re-flash based on the mods you have done to your car will be the best HP/TQ increase benefit.

Problem is no one is honest enough to do a real shoot out, controlled, independant with no back pocket payoff's.

If I had money to burn I would do a full exhaust with 200 cell cats, free flow mufflers, intake mods and so forth and have a custom ECU re-flash.

However after you do all this work you probably should have just got a GT3.

My new 997.2 S has just hit 200 miles. I will hit englishtown over the next few weeks and establish a stock baseline for my car. Over the winter I plan on the cold intake(at least hi-flo filters) and the central muffler x-pipe from fabspeed. I will then hit e-town in March to see the benefits.

As far as just get the GT3. The dealer had one in black.
For an everyday driver in ny/nj..just cannot happen. The car is way too low, will scrape everywhere. The manual will be a real pain (LOVE the pdk in the C2S) and would certainly need a winter tire package. Also no back seat, which I need.

[stevepow]

Originally Posted by Gpjli

With Led Zepplin beat in the background: "Dream on, Dream on".....

God, it makes you feel old when people don't know Aerosmith from Led Zeppelin.

Originally Posted by Ritchie Blackmore

What should I do with young people? They're involved in a totally different kind of music. Young people are just too young.

Sorry, very OT.

[wa1l1in]

so wait, if u change exhaust the system still limits the tq on 997.2? so the gains written by others are false unless u change ecu mapping?

[911 S]

^^^^

i want an answer for that question!!!

[mdrums]

Originally Posted by wa1l1in

so wait, if u change exhaust the system still limits the tq on 997.2? so the gains written by others are false unless u change ecu mapping?

That is what 07Speed and I are asking.

I am understanding it as GIAC is claiming that Fabspeed, Tubi, Brombacher, AWE, Sharkwerks are all lying about there exhaust claims.

I do know that AWE claims lees gain than Sharkwerks with the crossover pipe and that AWE claims loss of power with the X pipe and Fabspeed claims a huge gain in power with the X pipe.

Who freakin knows anymore. I am spending my money on tires brake pads and track days. My next mod is the Champion PDK paddle that Rennsport-1 has...these is are mods that I can see a benefit when I spend my money.

[Todd/AWE]

Originally Posted by mdrums

That is what 07Speed and I are asking.

I am understanding it as GIAC is claiming that Fabspeed, Tubi, Brombacher, AWE, Sharkwerks are all lying about there exhaust claims.

I do know that AWE claims lees gain than Sharkwerks with the crossover pipe and that AWE claims loss of power with the X pipe and Fabspeed claims a huge gain in power with the X pipe.

Who freakin knows anymore. I am spending my money on tires brake pads and track days. My next mod is the Champion PDK paddle that Rennsport-1 has...these is are mods that I can see a benefit when I spend my money.

Well, Austin may have been a little too "absolute" when he stated that NO power can be made with bolt ons and the stock software, but he is not far off. The stock software is indeed an extremely limiting obstacle to making power with hardware upgades on this car.

Notice that we only claim 5hp gain with our cross over pipes on the 997.2.

Notice that we don't make any power gain claims with our mufflers for the 997.2.

Notice that despite posting pictures of our completed header and cat prototypes for the 997.2 over 6 months ago, they are still not on our site for sale.

Notice that the German competitor full packages (mufflers, cats, headers) for the 997.2 also have an ECU flash included.

We have an in house 09 997.2 6 speed, so extensive R&D work has been done to optimize power results with the stock software (meaning no losses), and we've been working with GIAC to develop specific software to unlock the gains our hardware has the potential to make.

It's hard to talk about this subject without unavoidably shining the light on the power claims that *are* out there for this car.

As we maintained from day one, to make massive power claims regarding simple center muffler replacement parts alone begs the question how indeed Porsche would be so inefficient in their engineering to allow such power to be so easily liberated.

Now that GIAC is making expert statements regarding the power limiting strategies built into the stock software, those massive hardware-only power claims are even more controversial, in our professional opinion.

[Hugh!]

It is possible to place myself at home?
I'm from Argentina, you can send me the cable and the program.?

[mdrums]

Originally Posted by Todd/AWE

Well, Austin may have been a little too "absolute" when he stated that NO power can be made with bolt ons and the stock software, but he is not far off. The stock software is indeed an extremely limiting obstacle to making power with hardware upgades on this car.

Notice that we only claim 5hp gain with our cross over pipes on the 997.2.

Notice that we don't make any power gain claims with our mufflers for the 997.2.

Notice that despite posting pictures of our completed header and cat prototypes for the 997.2 over 6 months ago, they are still not on our site for sale.

Notice that the German competitor full packages (mufflers, cats, headers) for the 997.2 also have an ECU flash included.

We have an in house 09 997.2 6 speed, so extensive R&D work has been done to optimize power results with the stock software (meaning no losses), and we've been working with GIAC to develop specific software to unlock the gains our hardware has the potential to make.

It's hard to talk about this subject without unavoidably shining the light on the power claims that *are* out there for this car.

As we maintained from day one, to make massive power claims regarding simple center muffler replacement parts alone begs the question how indeed Porsche would be so inefficient in their engineering to allow such power to be so easily liberated.

Now that GIAC is making expert statements regarding the power limiting strategies built into the stock software, those massive hardware-only power claims are even more controversial, in our professional opinion.

Thanks Todd for shinning some more light on this touchy subject. You just never know when to believe a dyno sheet posted up on the internet since so many things can be done to ...alter....the dyno readings.

[Todd/AWE]

Originally Posted by mdrums

Thanks Todd for shinning some more light on this touchy subject. You just never know when to believe a dyno sheet posted up on the internet since so many things can be done to ...alter....the dyno readings.

Well, "alter" would suggest intentional deception. I'm not so sure the questionable dyno sheets you see out there are altered or made up, I just think they may be the result of less than expert dyno testing.

I've made several posts on Porsche forums regarding the ins and outs of testing these cars and how easily it is to get corrupted or invalid dyno results if careful and scientific testing is not done.

But in this industry, one does not need a license to operate or publish results from a chassis dyno. So what the dyno owner may assume to be valid data then gets "innocently" published as real results.

The fuel injection systems on modern German cars are incredibly complex and have sophisticated strategies to protect the engine when subject to adverse operating conditions.

Sub-par dyno room cooling systems or cool down protocols when testing can show vast differences between runs that are only the result of the ECU dialing back ignition advance or enriching fuel and not a result of advanced hardware design.

If the unskilled or unknowing chassis dyno owner picks the best and worst sheets, it can appear that the hardware upgrade actually made power when it is simply a false positive due to uncontrolled testing protocol.

[sharkster]

Originally Posted by mdrums

I do know that AWE claims lees gain than Sharkwerks with the crossover pipe and that AWE claims loss of power with the X pipe and Fabspeed claims a huge gain in power with the X pipe.

We only claim around 8hp or so but it's been independently dyno'd by multiple shops and people (who have nothing to gain) to confirm that but the sound and weight reduction is the main plus. As far as "massive" amounts of power goes you can look at AWE's 997.1 system: +28-39 crank hp, +28-31 crank tq with full system for 997S (certainly interesting considering the conversation going on here):
http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shar...IL=997Sexhaust

[Todd/AWE]

Originally Posted by sharkster

As far as "massive" amounts of power goes you can look at AWE's 997.1 system: +28-39 crank hp, +28-31 crank tq with full system for 997S (certainly interesting considering the conversation going on here):
http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shar...IL=997Sexhaust

The Bosch port injection calibration on the 997.1 and the Siemens DFI calibration on the 997.2 are completely different animals. It's a whole new ballgame with the 997.2.

And the majority of our gains with our 997.1 system are by use of much higher flowing cats, given that we don't have to hit the same emissions targets as the OEM's. We have the same opportunity on the 997.2 once the software obstacle is removed. Comparing cat gains to midmuffler replacement gains or any hardware-only massive gains on the 997.2 is what is controversial.