997Current model of the 911 C2, C2s, C4, C4S, Targa and Cabriolet Discussion. Sponsored By HRE Wheels
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Contains all the data, VIN, etc. Engine hours will be closed to 0, with no over revs.
Is the original is cloned and replaced with a flashed Ecu while the owner hangs on to one of them ? Why would they do this and expose themselves as soon as the DME is read ? Casting aside warranty issues or lack of over revs is it even legal to sell a car with a cloned Ecu ?
Your info opens up all types of speculation as to the unusual replies the Op got ,
It even makes one wonder if the 15K miles are legit too.
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I've had a chance to fiddle with both PIWIS and Durametric...I have never seen an odometer reading on a PIWIS printout of the DME, but it will read the odometer from the cluster. Not sure what the 54 means...wonder if he/she could post a scan of his printout.
bbywu - I am a he
I agree w/Larry; think it can only be one of two options. I'm generally a trusting person, but this one doesn't smell too good. I will give them a chance to come clean, then walk away. I should also contact PCNA.
Kyle, I was hoping you would chime in here...why would they do that...if the DME failed why would they not program reasonable engine hours and acutal speedo miles into the new one...this situation makes that car suspect forever
Does the VIN actually match?
I'm curious about what your indi dealer had to say...
__________________ RyeM3 '07 997S - Arctic Silver on Black - Full leather, adaptive sport seats, sport chrono, nav, Bose, 997 TT wheels, TechArt spoiler and rockers, EVOMS intake
Does the VIN actually match?
I'm curious about what your indi dealer had to say...
Yes, VIN from scan report matches the VIN on vehicle. Indi said they can do the DME scan again . I told Indi he needs to get with the P-dealer and speak to Service Manager and ask them to explain what happened. As others posted here, give dealer a chance to come clean - honest mistake or other.
As I understand from posts the causes may be:
A) New engine - ECU should have been updated w/actual mileage
B) Flashed ECU - should have been updated w/actual mileage + operating hrs
C) DME scan off another pcar
D) New DME module - should have been updated w/actual mileage + operating hrs
Will get on the phone w/Indi on Monday and work this through. At the moment if will take moving mountains to get me into that car, but I feel obligated to get to the bottom of this so the next potential buyer may not have a bad experience.
Kyle, I was hoping you would chime in here...why would they do that...if the DME failed why would they not program reasonable engine hours and acutal speedo miles into the new one...this situation makes that car suspect forever
Just hypothetical answers but...
1 could be the original DME was bad and replaced and no data could be saved or transferred out of the old DME.
or... 2 the dme was replaced for what ever reason and coded manually for the vehicle.
With the tools available to the dealership they cant alter operating hours or reset overrevs. Data would have to be transferrred out of the old DME and into the new one during programming. When one is replaced, Data is read out of the old module and saved into the system tester, it is then programmed into the new module, If the old DME failed in a way that it isnt possible to do this, then the module is manually programmed for vehicle type,and options as well as the engine map for which ever emmision standards for the country the vehicle is in. But not logged information like operating hours, over revs, mileage. etc....
Just hypothetical answers but...
1 could be the original DME was bad and replaced and no data could be saved or transferred out of the old DME.
or... 2 the dme was replaced for what ever reason and coded manually for the vehicle.
With the tools available to the dealership they cant alter operating hours or reset overrevs. Data would have to be transferrred out of the old DME and into the new one during programming. When one is replaced, Data is read out of the old module and saved into the system tester, it is then programmed into the new module, If the old DME failed in a way that it isnt possible to do this, then the module is manually programmed for vehicle type,and options as well as the engine map for which ever emmision standards for the country the vehicle is in. But not logged information like operating hours, over revs, mileage. etc....
Thanks, Porsche917. It appears you were spot on. Here is response from Porsche Dealer:
The DME is never replaced when the engine is replaced. The only reason the DME was replaced on this particular vehicle was due to the fact that the unit froze up during a routine service action that requires remapping the DME for a rear engine compartment blower fan operation.
The mileage on the new DME is set to zero from the factory and cannot be changed. The mileage is documented from what the instrument cluster and/or the original DME reading was. However the original DME could not be accessed due to the fact that the unit froze up so actual mileage is document from the instrument cluster. The instrument cluster is set to zero from the factory and cannot be altered once the unit is “burned” or programmed to the vehicle which includes putting in the correct mileage.
The DME from a ‘09/’10 vehicle will not work for this vehicle. That year vehicle has DFI injection where this vehicle does not.
There is no reason to replace a DME when the engine is rebuilt. The only reason a DME is to be replaced is for an electrical issue/software issue. Even then the mileage cannot be altered (they are always set at zero from the factory and start to count the moment the unit is programmed to the vehicle).
I have seen DME’s fail during this process and for other reasons. I understand your concern about tampering and/or inaccurate mileage however everything is documented at the dealership as well as Porsche.
this doesn't change the fact that you have no information about the engine in the car since the new dme does not reflect actual hours or over-revs...this is a good way for a dealer to hide a lot of type 1's and maybe a money shift or two...just throw the dme away and hope someone will not ask any questions...I wouldn't touch this car with a 10 foot pole unless a leak down and compression test was perfect and it was $10k under valued for the loss you will take if you ever try to re-sell...
Very interesting. So they replaced the DME. Well the fan blower was a recall on these cars that apparently wasn't performed by the prior owner - same thing happened to me. Interesting that they JUST replaced the thing, guess that was part of the blower recall they were performing to get the car ready for sale.
I'll play the devil's advocate to Chuck. The reason seems legitimate and explainable. I've never seen anybody else on the board report such a thing though, so it must be very rare. You don't have the engine information, but how is the condition of the car? THe DME info is only one piece of info in buying a car. Also, there are a TON of Porsches sold to people that don't check the DME or even know that the info is available. It does not necessarily impact resale value. The condition of the car will. CPO buys some piece of mind as well, but you might want to know more about the engine, so I could concur with Chuck's recommendation on the leak down test. My point is that the car could be good or it could be bad. Lack of a DME record doesn't make a statement either way. If someone wants the check when you try to sell it, there could be an impact, so you will need to weigh that with how perfect the car is in meeting your objectives.
__________________ RyeM3 '07 997S - Arctic Silver on Black - Full leather, adaptive sport seats, sport chrono, nav, Bose, 997 TT wheels, TechArt spoiler and rockers, EVOMS intake
this doesn't change the fact that you have no information about the engine in the car since the new dme does not reflect actual hours or over-revs...this is a good way for a dealer to hide a lot of type 1's and maybe a money shift or two...just throw the dme away and hope someone will not ask any questions...I wouldn't touch this car with a 10 foot pole unless a leak down and compression test was perfect and it was $10k under valued for the loss you will take if you ever try to re-sell...
I agree . There are too many cars without this magnitude of unknowns .
1) a replaced engine and DME
2) a used car in "as is " condition
3) an independent dealership
4) disclosure took a prying buyer and who knows if it's even true .
Many thanks to all who responded. I've received quite an education over the past several days; that's a good thing. But, more importantly, is the education I received prior to this post. Specifically, reading this forum, and having a few 1:1 with members educating me up front on what to ask when considering a purchase of a used 997.
The outcome.........
Even when considering offering a below market price, there are just too many unknowns. And, that makes me not 'love' the car enough to put it through the compression and leak test. I do like the car from it's physical appearance and options, but in the end my plan was to own for about 3 years or so, which means I'll have a similar headache when I go to sell; just not worth the effort to me. If your curious to see what all the fuss was about, PM me and I'll send a link.
I will continue to look, but admit, I'll find myself gravitating more towards CPO cars; while no guarantee, they will provide additional warranty and peace of mind.
I am also working my local dealer on an '09 C2S, that if the price is right, I could be swayed to purchase new and give myself a better chance of having a great 'first' experience with a P-car.
LOL, I am sure that if I pulled a DME scan Porsche would want to buy the car back to find out how the engine hasn't blown up yet.
i do not think you really have anything in 5-6 categories from regular downshifting. to get something there you really need to put like 2nd gear instead of 4th going down from 6th.
. I told Indi he needs to get with the P-dealer and speak to Service Manager and ask them to explain what happened. As others posted here, give dealer a chance to come clean - honest mistake or other.
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