Does talking about these cars inspire the urge to buy one ?
#31
05-11-2011, 12:05 AM
I did watch the Top Gear video on their site .
Just as Clarkson has an opinion so to the dozens of journalists who write words of praise (google search "M3 competition package")
Opinion differs from FACT .. however . The facts are that BMW rigorously tests their vehicles too . The facts are that a shared daily driver won't see those track driving limits but i do like the wheels and feel they are worth 2500 .
BTW ... even clarkson notes the weight savings and suspension upgrades and why his lap test gave him identical results raises questions like is the one test sufficient ? Did the human component play a role ? Did climate play a role? Why didn't he offer an explanation as to why his results fell out of line with physics ?
BTW .. I would say the same to the auto journalists who write praise too . They don't write articles for free and that in itself creates bias . In fact if everyone took journalistic press as FACT .. everyone would have bought a GtR three years ago .
As for the exhaust vs aftermaket ---
BMW in my region is not mod friendly and service locally can be quite challenging .
My girlfriend is the primary driver and drops the BMW off for service. In order for us both can enjoy the car .. we will leave the car stock .
Just as Clarkson has an opinion so to the dozens of journalists who write words of praise (google search "M3 competition package")
Opinion differs from FACT .. however . The facts are that BMW rigorously tests their vehicles too . The facts are that a shared daily driver won't see those track driving limits but i do like the wheels and feel they are worth 2500 .
BTW ... even clarkson notes the weight savings and suspension upgrades and why his lap test gave him identical results raises questions like is the one test sufficient ? Did the human component play a role ? Did climate play a role? Why didn't he offer an explanation as to why his results fell out of line with physics ?
BTW .. I would say the same to the auto journalists who write praise too . They don't write articles for free and that in itself creates bias . In fact if everyone took journalistic press as FACT .. everyone would have bought a GtR three years ago .
As for the exhaust vs aftermaket ---
BMW in my region is not mod friendly and service locally can be quite challenging .
My girlfriend is the primary driver and drops the BMW off for service. In order for us both can enjoy the car .. we will leave the car stock .
Clarkson is not a huge fan of ze Germans.... even though he did once call the 996TT the best car in the world... or something along those lines.
The Comp package alone is slightly lighter (due to the wheels) and lower (due to the springs) and the DDC has been re-tuned specifically for the package. The change is subtle, very subtle. The E46 Comp was actually heavily criticized in tests as the stiffer suspension without the rest of the CSL goodies actually upset the cars balance. I do not think the E92 suffers from the same fate but I still question if a set of wheels and springs is really doing much and is it really worth it.
I will say that if I was getting into an M3 today, I would opt for the Comp package (maybe, assuming I did not mod it). The performance exhaust and CF bits, that are now options, are cool and I think I would be tempted in that direction as well.
But, I have to be honest with myself, this is probably what I would really do...
Or this...
Jason
#32
05-11-2011, 12:21 AM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 9,107
Rep Power: 527 
But, I have to be honest with myself, this is probably what I would really do...
I look at the M3 somewhat like a 3 seriies with special sauce . In fact you might recal that i went through a lot of ambivalence with my 08 car but with time it really grew on me . When I first got my 08 car the bump on the hood and the fenders just felt like a sophisticated Mustang . It lacked finesse in styling . The image of Popeye eating spinach in a 328i comes to mind. It just seemed juvenile and simplistic .
That was then . Three years later .. the intimate setting of 36k miles of driving brought out so much beauty in this car . So i bought another .
It took time to love the M3 but i still can't see it beyond a street car with some sizzle .
#33
05-11-2011, 12:36 AM
It went from a car that was really supposed to be nothing more than a homologated special and has been turned into a GT.
In my opinion the M3 should have stayed this course. The E36 M3 should have come to the US in nothing but E36 M3 LTW form, The E46 in CSL form only, and the E92 M3 should have been what the M3 GTS is today. Alas, the apple has fallen quite far from the tree.
The M3 in its origin was the GT3RS...RS of the BMW world... but no more.
Enjoy the new ride...
Jason
#34
05-11-2011, 01:10 AM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 9,107
Rep Power: 527 This is why I fell out of love (thats not right)... I should I say, why I moved to Porsche for comfort....and felt luke warm about the newer M3's....
It went from a car that was really supposed to be nothing more than a homologated special and has been turned into a GT.
In my opinion the M3 should have stayed this course. The E36 M3 should have come to the US in nothing but E36 M3 LTW form, The E46 in CSL form only, and the E92 M3 should have been what the M3 GTS is today. Alas, the apple has fallen quite far from the tree.
The M3 in its origin was the GT3RS...RS of the BMW world... but no more.
Enjoy the new ride...
Jason
It went from a car that was really supposed to be nothing more than a homologated special and has been turned into a GT.
In my opinion the M3 should have stayed this course. The E36 M3 should have come to the US in nothing but E36 M3 LTW form, The E46 in CSL form only, and the E92 M3 should have been what the M3 GTS is today. Alas, the apple has fallen quite far from the tree.
The M3 in its origin was the GT3RS...RS of the BMW world... but no more.
Enjoy the new ride...
Jason
The fact that they have some crossover features is IMO .. a strength .. not a weakness .
It's when trying to force the issue of one purpose to a multi task car that tries to make the car something that it isn't .
I would rather be satisfied with what is .. than focus entirely on what isn't.
#35
05-11-2011, 09:31 AM
I think it's nice that the cars have some interchangeable diversity . Some guys will buy car seats for their 997 cars and the track car now has an element of being a family car . The M sedan BMW cars can be used as a track car but a sedan is primarily a family car .
The fact that they have some crossover features is IMO .. a strength .. not a weakness .
It's when trying to force the issue of one purpose to a multi task car that tries to make the car something that it isn't .
I would rather be satisfied with what is .. than focus entirely on what isn't.
The fact that they have some crossover features is IMO .. a strength .. not a weakness .
It's when trying to force the issue of one purpose to a multi task car that tries to make the car something that it isn't .
I would rather be satisfied with what is .. than focus entirely on what isn't.
I think one of the coolest things about the GT3 and previous RS's is that you could drive them on the street and then to a track day on the weekends, dominate, and then drive them home. I do not think there is any better example of this than when Chris Harris and others pioneered a bone stock GT3RS.2 in the last 24hrs of The Nuremburg race and came in 11th overall...crazy
I disagree a little about the multi purpose of cars. I think a focused car is usually a better car. I feel that imbuing a car with the ability to do multiple things ends of making it a car that is good at doing lots of things, but not great at anything. In this view, I think the M3 did need the Comp package to focus it more at its roots. However, I think the Comp package could have gone a little farther also. Either way, I do not think that anybody does the multi-tasking thing better than BMW. The M3 certainly does just about everything great. Hence why it is the benchmark for others in the segment. I just wish there was a little more Motorsport focus in the car.... after all it is a Motorsport division car....
Jason
#36
05-11-2011, 02:34 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 9,107
Rep Power: 527 Do not get me wrong. I still am a huge M fan. I am sure I will even like the M3 TT or TTT if the rumors are true.
I think one of the coolest things about the GT3 and previous RS's is that you could drive them on the street and then to a track day on the weekends, dominate, and then drive them home. I do not think there is any better example of this than when Chris Harris and others pioneered a bone stock GT3RS.2 in the last 24hrs of The Nuremburg race and came in 11th overall...crazy
I disagree a little about the multi purpose of cars. I think a focused car is usually a better car. I feel that imbuing a car with the ability to do multiple things ends of making it a car that is good at doing lots of things, but not great at anything. In this view, I think the M3 did need the Comp package to focus it more at its roots. However, I think the Comp package could have gone a little farther also. Either way, I do not think that anybody does the multi-tasking thing better than BMW. The M3 certainly does just about everything great. Hence why it is the benchmark for others in the segment. I just wish there was a little more Motorsport focus in the car.... after all it is a Motorsport division car....
Jason
I think one of the coolest things about the GT3 and previous RS's is that you could drive them on the street and then to a track day on the weekends, dominate, and then drive them home. I do not think there is any better example of this than when Chris Harris and others pioneered a bone stock GT3RS.2 in the last 24hrs of The Nuremburg race and came in 11th overall...crazy
I disagree a little about the multi purpose of cars. I think a focused car is usually a better car. I feel that imbuing a car with the ability to do multiple things ends of making it a car that is good at doing lots of things, but not great at anything. In this view, I think the M3 did need the Comp package to focus it more at its roots. However, I think the Comp package could have gone a little farther also. Either way, I do not think that anybody does the multi-tasking thing better than BMW. The M3 certainly does just about everything great. Hence why it is the benchmark for others in the segment. I just wish there was a little more Motorsport focus in the car.... after all it is a Motorsport division car....
Jason
The two car companies had to move outside te box to give these cars multi talemts and they did a great job.
As for the Turbo engine . I can't get the video to post or e mail but on the BMW website in the "build yoir own" section of the 1 series 1M car there is a video worth looking at on the summary page after you build the car.
Here's a good teaser thiough . This may replace the Civic Si one day. nOt bad for a little Turbo !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1spzeR-giq4
#37
05-13-2011, 12:21 AM
When I look at a car like the M5 my first thought is that 4 doors were never built to gewt around a track faster . They were made to carry passengers . Owners drive their frienbds and family and need space . The M3 is still a sedan and in coue form it still has a big trunk . These items contadict the track purpose just as the rear seats and a sunroof in a 997 also contradicts it .
The two car companies had to move outside te box to give these cars multi talemts and they did a great job.
As for the Turbo engine . I can't get the video to post or e mail but on the BMW website in the "build yoir own" section of the 1 series 1M car there is a video worth looking at on the summary page after you build the car.
Here's a good teaser thiough . This may replace the Civic Si one day. nOt bad for a little Turbo !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1spzeR-giq4
The two car companies had to move outside te box to give these cars multi talemts and they did a great job.
As for the Turbo engine . I can't get the video to post or e mail but on the BMW website in the "build yoir own" section of the 1 series 1M car there is a video worth looking at on the summary page after you build the car.
Here's a good teaser thiough . This may replace the Civic Si one day. nOt bad for a little Turbo !!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1spzeR-giq4
The 1M engine is really just a spiced up N54 and very similar to the 335iS engine. Sexy motor and even sexier in a "lighter" car like the 1 series. However, I would be upset if it was the future of the M3. The new N55 single turbo that inhabits the latest 335, 135, and 535 is even less inspiring to me despite its crafty variable vein crazy turbo tech.
I have heard rumors of a triple turbo 6cyl in the works. This is appealing, special, and an interesting step forward (maybe back) for BMW and the M division. I guess we will see.
Jason
#38
05-13-2011, 12:44 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: southern california
Posts: 98
Rep Power: 17
I am a prospective buyer for the 991 who currently drives a camry, so I feel I am very qualified to reply to this thread. lol.
Reading all of this information makes it very difficult to sit around and patiently wait for the 991 to come out. There are times when I am itching for any upgrade from my camry, and these threads don't make the wait any better. What makes the wait even worst is seeing a lot of my friends driving nice cars too. Everyone in my hometown is driving is at least a BMW, and Bentleys just made their way into town. At the end of the day, it just wouldn't make financial sense for me (not talking about other people's situation) to buy a 997 just to have the 991 be announced in 4 months. This has prevented me from snatching one up, but the temptation is so bad for me. I have to hold out for at least one more year because the first 991s to hit American soil will go for MSRP. This is my own personal hell waiting for the 991 and trying to be fiscally responsible. lol, fml. Let's just hope that the 991 is a great car because it will make the wait so worth it.
Lesson learned: Delayed gratification is so overrated.
Reading all of this information makes it very difficult to sit around and patiently wait for the 991 to come out. There are times when I am itching for any upgrade from my camry, and these threads don't make the wait any better. What makes the wait even worst is seeing a lot of my friends driving nice cars too. Everyone in my hometown is driving is at least a BMW, and Bentleys just made their way into town. At the end of the day, it just wouldn't make financial sense for me (not talking about other people's situation) to buy a 997 just to have the 991 be announced in 4 months. This has prevented me from snatching one up, but the temptation is so bad for me. I have to hold out for at least one more year because the first 991s to hit American soil will go for MSRP. This is my own personal hell waiting for the 991 and trying to be fiscally responsible. lol, fml. Let's just hope that the 991 is a great car because it will make the wait so worth it.
Lesson learned: Delayed gratification is so overrated.
#39
05-13-2011, 01:39 AM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 9,107
Rep Power: 527 I am a prospective buyer for the 991 who currently drives a camry, so I feel I am very qualified to reply to this thread. lol.
Reading all of this information makes it very difficult to sit around and patiently wait for the 991 to come out. There are times when I am itching for any upgrade from my camry, and these threads don't make the wait any better. What makes the wait even worst is seeing a lot of my friends driving nice cars too. Everyone in my hometown is driving is at least a BMW, and Bentleys just made their way into town. At the end of the day, it just wouldn't make financial sense for me (not talking about other people's situation) to buy a 997 just to have the 991 be announced in 4 months. This has prevented me from snatching one up, but the temptation is so bad for me. I have to hold out for at least one more year because the first 991s to hit American soil will go for MSRP. This is my own personal hell waiting for the 991 and trying to be fiscally responsible. lol, fml. Let's just hope that the 991 is a great car because it will make the wait so worth it.
Lesson learned: Delayed gratification is so overrated.
Reading all of this information makes it very difficult to sit around and patiently wait for the 991 to come out. There are times when I am itching for any upgrade from my camry, and these threads don't make the wait any better. What makes the wait even worst is seeing a lot of my friends driving nice cars too. Everyone in my hometown is driving is at least a BMW, and Bentleys just made their way into town. At the end of the day, it just wouldn't make financial sense for me (not talking about other people's situation) to buy a 997 just to have the 991 be announced in 4 months. This has prevented me from snatching one up, but the temptation is so bad for me. I have to hold out for at least one more year because the first 991s to hit American soil will go for MSRP. This is my own personal hell waiting for the 991 and trying to be fiscally responsible. lol, fml. Let's just hope that the 991 is a great car because it will make the wait so worth it.
Lesson learned: Delayed gratification is so overrated.
Going from a Camry to a 991 is such a dramatic change on so many levels .
Imagine waiting for the 991 and paying the markup to get it first only to see a slight revision or a new gadget the next year . That is what many experienced with the Turbo . They bought a 2010 Turbo , or a Cayenne Turbo , or a Panamera Turbo .. and now there's a Turbo "S" .
All those high priced Tiptronics aren't even made anymore in many of the cars .
In short .. it will always be cheapest to buy a practical car . Even if one delays it.
#40
05-13-2011, 02:09 PM
I am a prospective buyer for the 991 who currently drives a camry, so I feel I am very qualified to reply to this thread. lol.
Reading all of this information makes it very difficult to sit around and patiently wait for the 991 to come out. There are times when I am itching for any upgrade from my camry, and these threads don't make the wait any better. What makes the wait even worst is seeing a lot of my friends driving nice cars too. Everyone in my hometown is driving is at least a BMW, and Bentleys just made their way into town. At the end of the day, it just wouldn't make financial sense for me (not talking about other people's situation) to buy a 997 just to have the 991 be announced in 4 months. This has prevented me from snatching one up, but the temptation is so bad for me. I have to hold out for at least one more year because the first 991s to hit American soil will go for MSRP. This is my own personal hell waiting for the 991 and trying to be fiscally responsible. lol, fml. Let's just hope that the 991 is a great car because it will make the wait so worth it.
Lesson learned: Delayed gratification is so overrated.
Reading all of this information makes it very difficult to sit around and patiently wait for the 991 to come out. There are times when I am itching for any upgrade from my camry, and these threads don't make the wait any better. What makes the wait even worst is seeing a lot of my friends driving nice cars too. Everyone in my hometown is driving is at least a BMW, and Bentleys just made their way into town. At the end of the day, it just wouldn't make financial sense for me (not talking about other people's situation) to buy a 997 just to have the 991 be announced in 4 months. This has prevented me from snatching one up, but the temptation is so bad for me. I have to hold out for at least one more year because the first 991s to hit American soil will go for MSRP. This is my own personal hell waiting for the 991 and trying to be fiscally responsible. lol, fml. Let's just hope that the 991 is a great car because it will make the wait so worth it.
Lesson learned: Delayed gratification is so overrated.
#41
05-13-2011, 02:51 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 9,107
Rep Power: 527 Well lets not forget the M5 was originally a hand made machine based on the 535 frame and imbued with an engine from the gods. The heart of the grand daddy of all M's... the M1.
The 1M engine is really just a spiced up N54 and very similar to the 335iS engine. Sexy motor and even sexier in a "lighter" car like the 1 series. However, I would be upset if it was the future of the M3. The new N55 single turbo that inhabits the latest 335, 135, and 535 is even less inspiring to me despite its crafty variable vein crazy turbo tech.
I have heard rumors of a triple turbo 6cyl in the works. This is appealing, special, and an interesting step forward (maybe back) for BMW and the M division. I guess we will see.
Jason
The 1M engine is really just a spiced up N54 and very similar to the 335iS engine. Sexy motor and even sexier in a "lighter" car like the 1 series. However, I would be upset if it was the future of the M3. The new N55 single turbo that inhabits the latest 335, 135, and 535 is even less inspiring to me despite its crafty variable vein crazy turbo tech.
I have heard rumors of a triple turbo 6cyl in the works. This is appealing, special, and an interesting step forward (maybe back) for BMW and the M division. I guess we will see.
Jason
http://jalopnik.com/5801175/2011-bmw...pe-first-drive
It's got 335 Hp too in such a light car plus they tried to keep many aspects very basic. (manual only. three color choices , etc)
I want to see the car . Not sure what i will replace the 07 Civic Si with as the 4th car . Usually opt for a Japanese car with economy , space, low price , worry free, etc . The 1M is quite tempting with the new Civic si being 2/3 of the price (loaded up) .
Last edited by yrralis1; 05-13-2011 at 02:57 PM.
#42
05-13-2011, 04:25 PM
Every day you wait is another day you will never get back that you could have been driving a 911. Don't forget that either. Don't expect to get below MSRP for the 991 until 1 year after launch if that. Porsche learned it's lesson after 2009 and has cut down on supply of new 997.2 to keep the pricing stable. The halcyon days of 15-20% off MSRP are long gone, don't expect them again. Furthermore, it's uncertain whether the S will be released at the same time as C2, or whether the C4 will be released at launch. Depending on which model you want and what options you desire, you may be waiting much longer IMO.
IMO
#43
05-13-2011, 05:03 PM
I thought the 1M was a twin turbo . It's not identical to the 335 .(see article)
http://jalopnik.com/5801175/2011-bmw...pe-first-drive
It's got 335 Hp too in such a light car plus they tried to keep many aspects very basic. (manual only. three color choices , etc)
I want to see the car . Not sure what i will replace the 07 Civic Si with as the 4th car . Usually opt for a Japanese car with economy , space, low price , worry free, etc . The 1M is quite tempting with the new Civic si being 2/3 of the price (loaded up) .
http://jalopnik.com/5801175/2011-bmw...pe-first-drive
It's got 335 Hp too in such a light car plus they tried to keep many aspects very basic. (manual only. three color choices , etc)
I want to see the car . Not sure what i will replace the 07 Civic Si with as the 4th car . Usually opt for a Japanese car with economy , space, low price , worry free, etc . The 1M is quite tempting with the new Civic si being 2/3 of the price (loaded up) .
Also keep in mind the unladed weight of the 1M is over 3300 pounds (courtesy BMW USA) which is not light.
For if you want to nerd out-
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9953
Jason
#44
05-13-2011, 07:44 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 9,107
Rep Power: 527 The 1M is a twin turbo (as you said) and has an almost identical engine to the 335iS (the M sport version of the 335i- The 335iS and 335 have two different engines these days). It also boasts more power and a Torque spike of up to 370ftlb's at WOT during overboost. The new 335 has the N55 which is a single turbo and quite different from the 1M engine. The old 335 was a TT. The IS and 1M both still use uprated versions of the previous N54. I know its confusing. For comparison the old TT 135i made 300hp/300ftlbs... the new 1M makes 335/330 but can overboost up to 370 for several seconds. Its not that impressive but clever engineering and marketing on BMW's part. Especially since the engine is actually a modded version of the previous generations powerplant.
Also keep in mind the unladed weight of the 1M is over 3300 pounds (courtesy BMW USA) which is not light.
For if you want to nerd out-
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9953
Jason
Also keep in mind the unladed weight of the 1M is over 3300 pounds (courtesy BMW USA) which is not light.
For if you want to nerd out-
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9953
Jason
I think the 1M is going to have a lot of torque which makes it ideal to zip around town . I also think that the old Turbo philosophy that the cars have lag or feel disconected has changed over time . In fact even with the Porsche Turbo the tuners have uped the ante and make some incredible cars thse days .
