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"It's not going to change a thing" means you have resigned yourself to the very likely possibility that the CTS-V will fare worse against its competition once tested in Euro mags, as has been the case for almost every American car? Ok, then we are in agreement.
I doubt BMW goes for outright lap records for a production sedan the way GM did. We rarely hear of any times for any of their cars, including the more hardcore performance cars.
Yeah, you rarely hear about BMW records because they haven't set the record.
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Yeah, you rarely hear about BMW records because they haven't set the record.
That's hardly relevant. We heard about GM releasing a 7:59 for the C6, yet that is no record for 2-seat sports cars. We heard about Porsche releasing a 7:50 for the 997.2 Carrera S w/PDK, but that is not a record worth mentioning. We rarely hear about BMW records because they rarely record them. Probably because they really don't give a crap compared to other companies.
That's hardly relevant. We heard about GM releasing a 7:59 for the C6, yet that is no record for 2-seat sports cars. We heard about Porsche releasing a 7:50 for the 997.2 Carrera S w/PDK, but that is not a record worth mentioning. We rarely hear about BMW records because they rarely record them. Probably because they really don't give a crap compared to other companies.
probably because there is no current production BMW that has broken into the 7 minute barrier..while GM, Porsche and even Nissan have...
The V shades the C63 in alot of important areas, I think you guys have forgotten that the C63 has already been pipped by the M3 sedan. The upper echelon of the Super Sedan class is now the XFR and the CTS-V. The XFR shades the European competition, and it truly is the only other car that has the chassis, power, and total combo to take on the CTS-V.
The V has trapped 118-119 mph bone stock and with an ECU tune, pulley, intake and exhaust is easily a high 120-130 mph trapping car....and that is serious speed for an over 4,000 lb car. And it would take a significant investment in a C63 to make it as fast as a stock CTS-V and to have anywhere near the V2's ride/ handling balance.
IMO for the CTS-V price point it slaps around the competition, and for more the XFR is a great alternative albeit not as agressive or not as great handling as the V.
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Garage: Silver Bullet - Firing Range - Pre Bangle
I want a car so violent that the mere thought of full throttle would cause a heart attack. That actually going wide open throttle in would result in nothing less than instant death!
Oh and BTW, here are some comparisons to the BMW CSL(7:50):
C6 Z06(7:42.99), 911 GT3(7:42), Ford GT(7:40.6), GTR(7:38) Independent testing and more likely a true stock time., ZR1(7:26.4), Viper ACR(7:22.1).
Looks like BMW is getting beaten up quite badly against its competition.
Well at least the stripped BMW CSL was able to beat the CTS-V(7:59), but then again against a regular M3(8:05) - even the Mac Daddy Caddy beats them. No wonder BMW doesn't brag about its lap times, they get beat like a drum.
Actually to be fair the BMW M3(8:05) did beat the Subaru WRX STI(8:06). "Beemer" owners everywhere can now shout from the roof tops, "BMW is the Uliimate Driving Machine! We beat Subaru! Yeah BOOOYYYEEE!!!"
IMO for the CTS-V price point it slaps around the competition, and for more the XFR is a great alternative albeit not as agressive or not as great handling as the V.
I concur, the CTS-V2 is KING OF THE ROAD!!! But if BMW or MB wants me to take one of their cars to the track, bring it on.
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'05 CTS-V Maggi 112 & Stroked, 510RWHP/560RTQ, 162mph in Standing One Mile Run, not bad for 4,300lbs
'05 C6, PC P1, 545RWHP, 180mph in Standing One Mile Run, not bad for a stock LS2 with 9psi
'08 Enclave, waiting on TT kit To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
And...what's your point? That is exactly the same lap time I'm referencing (7:50 for Sport Auto). In other words, where is the BMW-claimed lap time for the CSL?
If the M3 CSL lapped in 7:50 with Sport Auto, which is only 1 second slower than the C6 Z06 with the same driver, doesn't it stand to reason that a BMW development driver could be much faster than 7:50? Remember, GM's time of 7:42 for the Z06 was with a standing start and a full lap. This means that compared to a Sport Auto lap (minus pit straight and flying), GM's time is artificially adding about 5 seconds to their time. If timed like Sport Auto, GM's 7:42 would be closer to a 7:37. And thus Sport Auto's Horst von Saurma was actually closer to 12 seconds slower than GM's time.
Similarly, HvS was ~21s slower than GM's time in the C6 Corvette (7:59 claimed, but w/full lap and standing start so closer to 7:54, vs 8:15 for HvS). HvS was faster in the M5 than he was with the C6 Corvette...
Ford GT never ran a 7:40.6. Where are you getting that from? Any 7:40'ish time was only an estimate.
Wow, you're comparing 500-hp V8 Z06's, stripped GT3's (no back seat?), 550-hp supercharged V8 mid-engined Ford GT's to a car built on a production 4-seater body/chassis with a NA I6. It that supposed to be an insult to BMW?
Actually to be fair the BMW M3(8:05) did beat the Subaru WRX STI(8:06). "Beemer" owners everywhere can now shout from the roof tops, "BMW is the Uliimate Driving Machine! We beat Subaru! Yeah BOOOYYYEEE!!!"
Not the same driver. That STi was driven by Motoharu Kurosawa. He has beaten HvS (who set that M3 time) in the same machine by 13 seconds: NSX-R. 8:09 for HvS vs 7:56 for Kurosawa. Fastest STi time by HvS is a 8:24. You are comparing a lap time by someone who is not always the fastest in these cars, vs someone who goes full tilt. Check out Kurosawa in the 964 Turbo:
Even with slowing down for the road works crew, he is faster than HvS in the 993 Turbo w/factory power kit and faster than HvS in the 996 (which has similar power/wt to the 964 Turbo, but a much more advanced rear suspension).
And to whoever posted it, usually...and of course I am no expert...but usually cars don't pick up 4 mph in trap with an ECU tune. So I am not so sure the C63 with an ECU tune would beat a stock CTS-V. And I dare not even imagine what kind of money it would take to get a C63 to 600 RWHP....which is no problem for the LSA....
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Garage: Silver Bullet - Firing Range - Pre Bangle
I want a car so violent that the mere thought of full throttle would cause a heart attack. That actually going wide open throttle in would result in nothing less than instant death!
Thanks for the feedback gents. I Drove both these cars with mixed thoughts. Loved the C63's engine and exhaust note-outstanding, even stock. I liked the fact that it's really a detuned version of the E63/SL63 motor and is easily tweeked back the level of the heavier 63-engined cars. However, It did not feel nearly as nimble as my current E90 M3/DCT and in my short test drive, it did not give me that driver's car feel that I expected. The CTS-V actually did provide the sense that it wanted to dance with you, it also felt very strong yet smooth in the power department-yet fairly quiet. I wish I would have tried a manual version though I hear the auto's are faster(6speed is rated for more power). The interior seemed a shade beneath the C63 in terms of quality. So, I liked the V2's drive better but also liked the sound of the C63 and could have gone with either car with some reservations.
Then a couple of M5 buddies told me to try a GT-R since I already have the M3. Seems they've already made the change....uh oh.
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