As many of you know Bamford Rose have been beavering away on my S to finish Johnny 550 for Rockingham
This week they started on adding the oil cooling radiator circuit to the ASM2 box that was descoped by the factory in the upgrade from ASM1 (and then reinstated on ASM3 as well as now being offered as an option on ASM2)
I asked them to do this as a precaution, knowing the effect excess heat can have on gearboxes and knowing it was going to need to cope with the extra power/torque. This is a common fitment on the race cars.
So on splitting the gearbox to fit the hoses they found debris on the magnetic plug, debris in the bottom of the casing and very dark oil which showed signs of overheating. On striping it further it got worse!

Significant wear marks on the main pinion gear


http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/12991530674/, on Flickr

Scoring to ALL the rollers of the main bearing


http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/12991135505/, on Flickr

and scuff marks to the bearing housing


http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/12991136515/, on Flickr

Now my S has always had a diff whine from cold which I dismissed as just cold oil it also got worse in the winter.
The car has done 13k miles in just over 12 months, never been tracked, never been launched, never been driven by ****ers, always properly warmed up and driven with mechanical sympathy.
In my experience of high power gearboxes this has occurred progressively.
The gearbox has only been used for 100 miles on the new engine to run it in a low revs so I'm certain it is not the engine.
Ironically had I not asked for the extra cooling BR would not have spotted this before it became a major failure and knowing my luck that would have been outside the 3 year warranty in the middle of a Eurohoon

So I have emailed the pictures along with my perspective and expectations to my contact at Gaydon. The reply promptly came back that as a sealed unit that has now been opened they could not entertain any warranty, this was reiterated by a phone call shortly afterwards. Not too surprised at that response though disappointed they didn't even discuss it with the technical team or want to see the damage for themselves.
I know of 3 other ASM2 gearboxes that have suffered similar damage with in months, this has all the makings of the throttle pedal debacle
Bamford Rose will be rebuilding the gearbox to a higher standard and taking measures to prevent this happening again.
For those of you with ASM2 gearboxes I would suggest you get the oil and magnetic plug checked for debris if you have any concerns.
Ironically one of the reasons I sold my last roadster and ordered a brand new S was to get away from the numerous quality issues the first one had. It has turned out the replacement is far worse!
Thankfully it seems I can rely on BR to spot any issues early and resolve them at reasonable cost.
I was keen on ordering a V12VS roadster when they are released, I am now 110% certain that will not happen.
I will persevere with the my S but there is no way I am going to support production of such poor quality by replacing another car with another "throw of the dice"
AML you really do need to sort your QC and consider its impact on future sales.

 

Hmm... that is worrying Mikey. Tough call there having the gearbox opened up, I probably would have done the same seeing as it was such low miles.

 

Cheers Stuart
We will get it sorted it
Luckily it was out for other reasons so it is only parts costs

 

Since you have the transaxle apart, have you considered shortening the final drive? I haven't looked at the 7 speed ratios to know but presumably 7 is a fairly long gear to begin with.

 

did think about it but actually like the current ratios

 

Maybe so, but as I'm sure you are aware most gearboxes have a strict torque input and tolerance limit, and can let go surprisingly quickly if this is exceeded. Often gearboxes can have the same basic coding but be upgraded with different material compositions, such as grades or types of steel, because of a relatively small OEM torque increase.

FF

 

More than aware
Also aware the same pinion is in the V12VS and the 1-77

 

We have now sorted this problem, added extra oil injection and a speed controlled pump with the ASM1 radiator reinstated.
We also shot peened and polished the gearbox internals
The combination of this work has dropped the oil temperature by upto 50C to ~80C
Thanks to Ian at Gaydon for his intervention and excellent customer focus on a failure like this after 13k miles and 12 months (NOT! )

 

A bit more detail!

Johnny went in to BR as a completely stock MY12 Vantage S roadster that had done 13k miles in ~12 months. It had been serviced at an AM dealer at one year old. I had noticed a noise from what I assumed was the diff when it was cold.

We agreed it may be prudent to reinstate the external oil cooler AM removed in going to ASM3 (also missing on V12VS). We had hoped to simply remove some blanking plugs and connect up the removed parts. No! Aston has wasted the money they saved in removing the cooler by recasting the casing with out the holes! So we had to split it to drill them back out

So when BR split the gearbox to do this they found it was already too late. it was full of dark smelly overheated oil. Like this;

20140520_074520 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

20140520_074524 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

20140520_074544 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

That may have been recoverable until debris was found in the casing and on the magnet, it was traced to the pinion having worn a chunk out of it

20140520_074133 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

So that now required a gearbox rebuild/replacement :cry:
A quick call to a contact in Customer Support at Gaydon confirmed our fears, the box is a sealed unit from the supplier and AM would not replace it as it had been opened. Pretty poor support but they are with in their rights I'd have accepted a used one or even used parts as a gesture of good will.
Time to look at alternatives, BR managed to work out the required part numbers and approached the gearbox manufacturer direct. After a bit of clarification we sat back for the 10 week lead time to run. That passed with out any contact, we followed up only to be told a very senior engineer at AM Gaydon had personally told them they cannot supply the parts to me and especially not BR
More excellent customer support from AM Gaydon
Back to square one, there was no way this was going to beat me!
A few weeks later suitable parts were sourced through another route. Timing was tight but having seen the quality of the casting and machining inside the gearbox I decide to have ALL the internals shot peened and polished. The aim of this was to make the box more efficient, improve oil coverage and keep it cooler.
As you can see from these pictures there is a MASSIVE improvement

20140619_082239 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

20140624_173914 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

20140624_173938 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

On top of this Adrian redesigned the oil circuit, it now forces oil down the internal of the hollow shafts, sprays it on to the gears rather than relying on gravity and recirculates it via a speed controlled pump (no over cooling!) that is on anti vibration mounts through the oil cooler that was deleted by Aston. We stuck some temperature indicators on either side so it effectiveness can be checked at a glance.

It seems a shame to hide such a work of art away in a box full of oil

20140619_082649 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

20140624_173009 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

20140624_173101 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr

There will be more to come on this!

 

Thanks for the pics, interesting!

 

Mikey,
So, do you think that you were unlucky and that your gearbox was just a bad build, or is this likely to be a broader fleet issue since AM deleted the transmission oil cooler?

Also, what is the history on the transmission oil cooker? Was there a time when it was fitted to all V12 and V8 Vantages?

FF

 

SportShift I and III have oil coolers, SportShift II does not.

 

Wow! Great picks. I never understood why they removed the transmission cooler. I personally love that the older cars have them and don't mind the 50lbw eight penalty for extra piece of mind. Now that I am mobil1 fluid he tranny fluid gets nice and smooth when full warm so the cooler is definitely a plus.

Awesome writeup, I don't think we have ever seen such close ups of the internals before, great job.

On a side note, what is the real benefits of shot peening? Strength or smoothness?

 

I see what you did there
I know of 4 other ASM2 boxes that have gone same way
Apparently with out the oil cooler the temps have been seen as high as 160C. This breaks the oil down thickening it and thereby reducing the lubrication. I seen similar circumstances on large air compressors with our business, once the oil sees prolonged periods of high temps it degrades it. I do tend to "use" my car it is not a bimble around car. So maybe I accelerated the issue.
Ironically the cooler circuit was fitted to ASM1 on the V8 and is now an "option" on the V12VS
I'm uncertain whether this is a "ticking time bomb" though I do think we will see more of these issues.

 

Its an option on ASM3, it was not fitted on the first V12VS's