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**I’m a newbie and have been reading numerous posted in which irish, you gave input, I need to replace my clutch for my “New to me” Vantage..What do you recommend?**
Actually, I’m not new and this is 90% of the PM’s I get..Don’t take that comment as a bash, PM we with all your questions..Those that know me already know, I’m an open book and will give every ounce of information that I can! ..No I don’t do private shows or bachelor parties..Bachelorettes...Hmm, maybe..Unless your name used to be Bruce, then I think my schedule is packed!
So....with that being said.. I just installed a Velocity AP Twin Plate Organic Clutch & Lightweight Flywheel OEM Replacement for Sportshift ASM(Long title..but isn’t everything that has a long name just simply HOT!!).
It’s a long read, so if you want a spoiler alert...My first thought on the clutch upon opening/installing/driving..WOW!! (in a excellant positive way)
Never heard of it??.. links are below(choices for stick shift and ASM).
The flywheel is a custom built piece for the V8 Vantage, which adapts a OEM stock original Twin Plate V12 Vantage S pressure plate/friction disc assembly to run on the V8. The V12 Vantage S/GT12 clutch is a new developed part already for Aston Martin, similar to the older V12 setups but this unit for the V12 “S” variant is an Aluminum housing...Don’t think I need to get into details explaining pros, but might have something to due to weight saving! The 4.7L clutch assembly that was on this vehicle is 37.5lbs and the twin plate unit is 33lbs. If you had a 4.3L, you would see more of a weight savings being the 4.3L had a heavier flywheel. I know it’s not a dramatic weight reduction..or is it? Your going from a weak single plate V8 stock setup to a twin plate clutch assembly made to handle the GT12 600BHP...So now this car has a clutch capable of +600BHP and is also 5.5 lbs lighter...All I see is a Win-Win scenario!!
Installing this unit is a little technically involved. I have every possible tool for this type of install(again it’s really a stock clutch for a V12VS)..The clutch when installing needs to be compressed, the bolts securing the pressure plate assembly to the flywheel are only about 5mm in thickness and believe V12VS torque spec for bolts is 19Nm(not to be confused with V8 flywheel bolt torque which is 110Nm)...So “CRANKING” these pressure plate bolts down to evenly mate the pressure plate to flywheel is not at all recommended..But hey, if you wish..Do as you please! ..In all honesty if your indie shop is trying to tackle this swap, you might want to double check your choice if they don’t have a tool for compressing the twin plate unit, these bolts will stretch and snap easily. Also keep in mind the bolts need to be torqued accordingly especially since the housing of the pressure plate is aluminum....If your doing this swap at a certified dealer, No worries..this tool is on the “Mandatory Tool List”..can they rent or lend it out? Well that depends on your local dealer...but I think you have a better chance of winning the Stanley Cup subbing in as the goalkeeper for Arizona during the series(Yes I used a Hockey comparison..I’m Canadian ..eh!!)
.....I hope your enjoyed my ramble so far,because it’s still going strong!! Here’s my opinion on this unit..I usually don’t recommend using an aftermarket clutch in the Vantage line-up, that’s unless it’s something that has been proven reliable..which much to none have reviews. Well....This Twin plate clutch setup gets my “A” for approval!! (not to be confused with the GT4 clutch, totally different, GT4 clutch is great on track..but street..Meh..it’s either on or off..no median)
This twin plate clutch actually made me think ..”This is the way it should of been from factory!” I thought: That’s pretty bold statement to say. Sooo I let management drive the car, what better ppl to put something to the test(Yes I’m holding back the insults..it’s management*rolls eyes*)...well words out of their mouth “It’s absolutely amazing!! How so? ..Well it feels stock, but in a good way...It’s seamless. (Reading this back it sounds like I’m doing an ad for SHAM-WOW!!, ..LOL I assure you it’s not...I don’t get paid ....
What do I have to back up my claim? There’s no more of that annoying reverse jerking, judder on take off. I even noticed when driving the car to learn the new misfire correction factors, the car had like a particular drivetrain vibration that was either deleted or reduced. Now I know this car had the clutch already on it’s way out before swapping in this new twin plate setup. ..But I drive these cars on a regular basis(in season about 3-4 a day ..sometimes more). So I’m pretty familar with what’s normal and whats running like sh*t and should be scrapped! This twin plate setup really felt *smooth* on the highway while driving, coasting, accelerating..Oh btw: this car also has the Velocity headers/highflow cats/”SuperSport” exhaust..IT’S DAMN LOUD!!.. And I’m labelling this car as smooth...So I can only imagine this twin plate in a car that you can actually talk to your passenger without the need for 2-way radios.
Throttle response..it felt more...hmm....responsive! The clutch setup is lighter, so of course lighting of the rotational mass is at play here which does also relate to shifting. So for regular shifts, in comfort or sport modes, and light-moderate-hard acceleration...It’s a breeze, very quick! Not sure if it was just my butt dyno, but I felt shifts more crispe and “clean”. ..don’t get me wrong, when all PCM parameter conditions are meet and your at hard acceleration from a dig, your neck will still snap...But!! It will be a *Clean* snap!! ..LOL
Anyways, I’ll let the pics below do the *eye candy* talking..If you have any questions or comments..Let them roll!!
Thanks for the review! Especially since I have already ordered this setup for my '07 manual V8V. It is supposed to arrive in a few days.
Good info about compressing the clutch pack, I'm having mine done at an independent shop (no AM dealer in my state) so I will have to discuss this with them. That's a wrinkle I was not aware of.
Does the special tool basically disengage the clutch by pressing in the spring fingers so the pressure plates/friction discs move away from the flywheel?
Does the special tool basically disengage the clutch by pressing in the spring fingers so the pressure plates/friction discs move away from the flywheel?
Yes..
This needs to be done so the pressure plate can seat correctly into grooves and releases pressure that would be on the bolts when torqueing bolts for pressure plate...again bolts are only 19Nm..so clamping them down without removing the pressure will net incorrect seating of pressure plate before torque spec is reached.
What's a good time estimate for how long it should take to do this job?
Sry, I'm not allowed to quote times..I would get a lot of heat doing so.
But time on top of a regular clutch change..maybe an extra hour to adjust tool correctly at max. The car I had took a few extra attempts to learn the misfire factors, maybe 30 mins longer on drive. My own theory for the longer learning process is from the lighter mass..the car wants to learn the de-coasting time, so when you lighten the mass of rotating parts, more attempts will be needed to learn..There might even be a different learning procedure that would only require 2-3 attempts for the new rotating mass weight, but that would require a line of communication with the engineer that set all this in place to operate..LOL I think it's easier just to do as needed, which was more than 5 times for this new twin plate assembly to learn
Are the misfire factors something you need to do only with the ASM or also with the manual transmission? Seems like something you can do yourself from what I have read in other threads here.
I talked with my indy shop and they have never done a clutch on an Aston but they have done other high-end cars with transaxles/torque tubes and many race cars. They are primarily a BMW shop. They say they can compress the clutch pack
(they said some other cars they have done required that) but I am going to have them look at the new clutch parts BEFORE they take the car apart to make sure they can do it properly.
Otherwise I guess I'll have to go on a road trip to a dealer.
From my experience..it doesn't matter if the shop is used to working on high end cars...Actually these with "guys" the incorrect thought can really screw things up. Because they work on "high end" all day, they get rid of the"Wow" factor of it being a nice high end car very fast..then treat the car just like any other vehicle on the road(piece of metal with wheels)...don't take that above theory as bashing indie shops, there are some real amazing talent at these shops!
It's funny how you mention BMW indie shop. We have one down the road, they also have there own weekender track car all tubed out......aaaaand I'm actually replacing shifter cables that they snapped on a clutch change when lower trans (pretty common repair I do during indie shop clutch season...Listen it happens to anyone, the best and worst ppl..If you go in blind and never did the job, have no clue what to expect, even being careful can still screw things up in the end...I'm not the guy that's gonna go around and say I'm the best, I'm good on Aston but give me an M3 or even a simple 3 series and that thing will mind-f*ck me for days..I'll manage and do it to what I think is perfection, but what if I don't know a particular step when finished needed to be performed to calibrate what I repaired? ...then my perfection looks like crap! :-P
The misfire factors need to be performed on all Aston Martins that use a ford EEC computer regardless of transmission..So really anything past 2005(old Vanquish that started in 2000). What does it do..well it detects a misfire by using the flywheel as the trigger wheel. It also uses it for ignition spark and fueling(can go all day with this). If the car does not have them learned, misfire will not be detected and ignition will run off cam sensor which then PCM estimates ignition. If misfires are learned from a old flywheel and a new flywheel is swapped in, well PCM uses old settings to control spark, no 2 flywheels are the same so there's always imperfections...this affects your spark and forces a late or too earlier ignition resulting in a slight misfire...Hehe I've wrote about this probably over a few hundred times, sure if you dig deep you'll find everything I know on misfire correction factors.
Man, it's hard to know who to trust. I've worked with my indie shop for 10+ years, have had no interaction with an Aston dealer except to get gouged for parts, and seeing my car's previous owner's $1500 oil change bills from the dealer makes me think they will also gouge for changing a clutch. Guess I should call them and see what they say...
Haha..I'm not trying to scare you..Just for me red flags come up when I hear the words "We've yet to do one but can handle the task"...what I hear is "We're good at what we do but will have to use your car as the guinea pig".. And in most shops, anything outside the brand specialized is a guinea pig trial(especially if the shop doesn't put out the cash to get the manufacture workshop manual to follow)..A prime example: I've dealt with Velocity on several occasions, if a part has been developed but yet to be installed on a clients car, Velocity is honest with us and we're honest with the client "**** might come up that's unexpected"..if problems arise "Time to crunch and lets all figure it out...although "lets" is a big word in developping, knowledge usually puts me on my own!..LMAO" ..Sry Stewie!!
Indie shop..If you trust them..go for it, no fault in that. This forum site has everything you would need to know about a clutch replacement, and now even a twin plate clutch upgrade swap from Velocity. Indie shops are lower prices "usually" because they don't have to put the cash out for training and up-keep of there tech's(among other things)..but if you can get all the info and hand it off to them for the job required...it's only a Win-Win for both ends(you and the indie shop)...If something gets scrapped, being there a "high end shop", they should be used to the high prices screw ups(I'm not perfect, stuff happens and I'm at a dealer..)..they should be up front and honest, and take responsibly for repairing what they scrapped in their "learning" process. ...just my 2cents
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I hear what you are saying. I've been a guinea pig so many times I've lost count. Some good, some bad.
I have the V8V workshop manual but the clutch replacement procedure in there is not the same as for the V12V, which seems to be more what we need here. Or kind of a hybrid... taking the car apart and putting it back together would follow the V8 procedures, but the actual clutch parts installation would follow the V12 procedures. Seems simple enough but then again the devil is in not knowing what you don't know.
I already have purchased the Velocity upgrade parts, they are supposed to be delivered in a few days. So I am committed to making this happen one way or another.
I will post updates as things move along. My wife really wants me to have the dealer do the work now, even if it costs twice as much. The car is off the road for the winter now so the clutch replacement will happen sometime between now and the end of March. I'll have the parts on December 1, then set up the labor probably for sometime after the new year. Unless they want to give me a discount to do it this year
11-24-2015, 02:15 PM
Review: Velocity AP's V8V Twin Plate Clutch & Lightweight Flywheel
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