BMW confirms the F10 M5 will get turbo V8 (not V10)
BMW //MDiscussion on the BMW M1, BMW M3, BMW M5, and the BMW M6
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so is it gonna be the x6 v8TT, or is it gonna be A special M v8TT?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmoney
Same motor as the X6 M I'm sure....
If it's the same motor, //M should just be shut down and integrated into BMW. It's bad enough it's turbo, but to be based on a regular engine is complete BS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iafb83
I prefer the twin turbo V8 to an N/A V10. Sure the V10 is sick and a lot more rare than a V8, but the TT V8 will have over 100 more ft-lbs of torque and probably about 50 more hp. Plus all of the power will come nearly instantly at low rpms. I think this is a win-win situation. If it gets better gas mileage, then all the better. I do agree the loss of a high revving engine is a little sad, but you exchange a little of the great sound for a lot more power.
But that's not what //M is all about. It's not about instantaneous torque. It's about progressive torque and a high reving engine that works better on the track... at least that's what //M use to be about.
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aus is right . having the same motor as the x6 is completely bullsh!t !!! wow . a motor reving to 5500 rpms ... wow great.... i could understand a high revving v8 twin turbo.....
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aus is right . having the same motor as the x6 is completely bullsh!t !!! wow . a motor reving to 5500 rpms ... wow great.... i could understand a high revving v8 twin turbo.....
The new 4.4TT motor that is allegedly going in the M5 will be the same motor as the X5M and X6M (555 hp), not the 'base' twin turbo 4.4 liter engine from the X650 (400 hp version).
The M-Twin Turbo engine is significantly more advanced (read efficient) and powerful than the current V10.
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Very sad to see. There is nothing like the crisp throttle response, linear power and screaming symphony you get from the NA V10
Yes it will put out a load of power but so does any other turbo car. There is a reason F-cars are only NA and M used to have something in common with them which was very special.
No supercar, the X6 along with M X5/X6 and now 5/3 series GT monstrosities while canceling the CS...not to mention telling me that Responsibility is Invigorating in their latest commercial. I am rapidly losing interest in BMW.
All good things...
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CAFE will force all non-boutique manufacturers to leverage the power/economy ratio by using turbos (or supercharging) soon.
Porsche is there, BMW is there, Audi is there, Mercedes is there.......
Keep your M6 and enjoy FI. I'm keeping my Z06 for the same reason.
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The new 4.4TT motor that is allegedly going in the M5 will be the same motor as the X5M and X6M (555 hp), not the 'base' twin turbo 4.4 liter engine from the X650 (400 hp version).
The M-Twin Turbo engine is significantly more advanced (read efficient) and powerful than the current V10.
But it's still based on a regularl production motor. The main difference is the exhaust manifold and turbo's. It's still a regular production block with a regular red line.
I was hoping (and still am hoping) the M5/6 will at least get an M motor with a real M redline.
C'mon guys, the new M3 kept up with the RS4 by using a high revving V8 with little torque and around 400hp. The RS6 uses a damn TT Gallardo V10 and makes 580hp. Yes, the Viper makes 600hp on an NA V10, but it's also 8.3L and I think the last time BMW made that much power NA, it was in a McLaren F1...
C'mon guys, the new M3 kept up with the RS4 by using a high revving V8 with little torque and around 400hp. The RS6 uses a damn TT Gallardo V10 and makes 580hp. Yes, the Viper makes 600hp on an NA V10, but it's also 8.3L and I think the last time BMW made that much power NA, it was in a McLaren F1...
You're losing sight... It's not all about power... M cars are not all about HP and straight line speed... The majority of people posting on this thread agree and understand
as am m5 owner (ok, a lowly e39) who skipped the e60 m5 generation for a variety of reasons including the inefficient v10 they developed, i'm looking forward to seeing what a turbo v8 can do as part of an overall package. i know many people will miss the e60 v10, but in the marketplace the car has been a 'dog with fleas' if you look at resale value...even relative to other high end cars in this market. i think bmw is reacting to the reality of the regulation their products face and to the reality that the current m5 was just not well received. great car, but too expensive and too inefficient imho.
Curio you're right. BMW ///M has sold their soul.
If you have an M5/M6 S85 keep it. It will mean something.
Sad day to see this day coming.
My dream has been for the ///M division to develop a 7.0L NA V10 making 650 bhp and 550 lb/ft torque. A real revving screamer but I dream .
On another note, there's a TT S85 built motor coming. I know it's been a long time coming but the project has been intensive. I have struggled through the patience believe me BUT it will be outrageous.
There will also be simpler kits, stages I & II. Running lower boost without internals. Approx. 700 to 750 bhp.
Stay tuned.
Ranger
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Porsche offers BOTH badass turbo motors and naturally aspirated motors.
BMW M sold their soul.
Oh, the drama.
Porsche really isn't playing in the performance sedan segment against BMW with a competitive N/A engine.
Moreover, Porsche doesn't produce any NA motors > 450hp. That 'top' motor is 3.8 liters and powers the GT3RS.
Even Porsche understood that it takes forced induction to (efficiently) produce big power/torque. (unless you pull the V10 from the CGT out of mothballs)
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Porsche really isn't playing in the performance sedan segment against BMW with a competitive N/A engine.
Moreover, Porsche doesn't produce any NA motors > 450hp. That 'top' motor is 3.8 liters and powers the GT3RS.
Even Porsche understood that it takes forced induction to (efficiently) produce big power/torque. (unless you pull the V10 from the CGT out of mothballs)
Porshce has never historically played in the performance sedan segment, Porsche is not BMW, what is your point?
Porsche never had a high revving philosophy for sedans, completely inconsequential.
What Porsche understood was that the GT3 needed the response of an NA motor for that character of car. That combined with light weight you don't need as much torque to move it, offering an incredible driving experience.
Additionally, your point about a Porsche NA motor exceeding 450 hp does not make sense as you are simply dismissing Porsche's history which has been mostly relegated to using naturally aspirated flat-6's, which are relatively small displacement. Oh, and another thing, they are so good at what they do they have hit 450 hp even with a small displacement 6 cylinder in naturally aspirated form.
Your conclusions are flawed, the fact you mention the CGT V10 shows you what type of motor Porsche thought they needed for their top of the line offering.
With that amount of torque, I don't see BMW offering manual in the new M5. So that's what upsets me the most. Nothing against DCT, but it's just not my cup of tea...
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Porshce has never historically played in the performance sedan segment, Porsche is not BMW, what is your point?
My point: Porsche has never faced the challenge of the sedan marketplace. They build either a) sports cars or b) SUV's.
Now they enter the market with the Panamera and the top performing model is a twin turbo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CURI0
What Porsche understood was that the GT3 needed the response of an NA motor for that character of car. That combined with light weight you don't need as much torque to move it, offering an incredible driving experience.
You're comparing a niche market track car's engine to a sports sedan.
Apples and oranges.
BMW understands that the current customer requires fuel efficiency, driveability, and a lot of power. The M5 V10 engine sounds great and makes good HP, but it's a gas hog. It's also near the upper limit of the HP it can produce. To remain market competitive and to prepare for CAFE, they opted to use forced induction.
Have you driven a vehicle with the new 4.4TT engine? IMO, the character of that engine will suit the M5 just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CURI0
Additionally, your point about a Porsche NA motor exceeding 450 hp does not make sense as you are simply dismissing Porsche's history which has been mostly relegated to using naturally aspirated flat-6's, which are relatively small displacement. Oh, and another thing, they are so good at what they do they have hit 450 hp even with a small displacement 6 cylinder in naturally aspirated form.
I'm not dismissing the history of the flat 6, but you may want to go back and refresh your memory that Porsche has used forced induction on their highest HP vehicles for some time. THEY 'sold out' to FI a long time before BMW. 959, 930, etc...
Porsche cannot build a fuel efficient, platform agnostic, high HP (over 500), NA motor any more than BMW can. If you believe that the V10 from a CGT could ever be the appropriate choice in a sedan or SUV, you've never driven a CGT. If Porsche thought that engine was a winner in sedans or SUV's, it would be in the CTS already.
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