BMW confirms the F10 M5 will get turbo V8 (not V10)
BMW //MDiscussion on the BMW M1, BMW M3, BMW M5, and the BMW M6
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My point: Porsche has never faced the challenge of the sedan marketplace. They build either a) sports cars or b) SUV's.
Now they enter the market with the Panamera and the top performing model is a twin turbo.
You're comparing a niche market track car's engine to a sports sedan.
Apples and oranges.
BMW understands that the current customer requires fuel efficiency, driveability, and a lot of power. The M5 V10 engine sounds great and makes good HP, but it's a gas hog. It's also near the upper limit of the HP it can produce. To remain market competitive and to prepare for CAFE, they opted to use forced induction.
Have you driven a vehicle with the new 4.4TT engine? IMO, the character of that engine will suit the M5 just fine.
I'm not dismissing the history of the flat 6, but you may want to go back and refresh your memory that Porsche has used forced induction on their highest HP vehicles for some time. THEY 'sold out' to FI a long time before BMW. 959, 930, etc...
Porsche cannot build a fuel efficient, platform agnostic, high HP (over 500), NA motor any more than BMW can. If you believe that the V10 from a CGT could ever be the appropriate choice in a sedan or SUV, you've never driven a CGT. If Porsche thought that engine was a winner in sedans or SUV's, it would be in the CTS already.
The top performing Panamera model is a turbo because they are sharing motors from the Cayenne. It is a business decision, pure and simple. Secondly, there is no need for a high revving V8 if the decision has already been made the top model will be a turbo. It would make the lineup redundant.
No, I'm not comparing apples and oranges, I'm stating the response and feel of a high revving NA motor give a certain character to a car. I thought I made this clear.
I am a current BMW customer, as well as having purchased 4 BMW's in the past 8 years, so I know what I want. What I want is a top of the line naturally aspirated motor in a balanced package in my M car. You are telling me what I want in an M? I have the car and I could care less about fuel economy. M cars were always the next best thing to a ferrari or GT3, not anymore.
Porsche has always had great turbo and naturally aspirated motors, I said this a while ago.... You seem to be equating Porsche's highest HP cars as their best cars, I would have to disagree with you. The GT3 does not offer the most HP in the Porsche lineup, but it is the best car IMO.
I never said anything at all regarding putting the motor in the Carrera GT anywhere other than in the Carrera GT. I don't know why you even mention this, makes no sense and no one raised this but you yourself.
An SUV is not going to use a high revving, lower torque motor originally designed for racing and propelling a much lighter vehicle like a CGT. This is simply common sense, you should understand it. The Carrera GT does not need to tow or haul passengers with luggage, it has a different purpose.
Porsche gives you the CHOICE, BMW made it for us and went back on their word. If you read up on your BMW history, you would know BMW considered forced induction a shortcut and said they would never produce M SUV's. They sold their soul, period.
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I have no additional time to play pattycake with you.
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Good discussion but I agree and will repeat, BMW has sold their ///M soul.
Some info on the coming 4.4L TT V8.
It will have small Garrett turbos and will run 21 psi.
Ranger
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Curio you're right. BMW ///M has sold their soul.
If you have an M5/M6 S85 keep it. It will mean something.
Sad day to see this day coming.
My dream has been for the ///M division to develop a 7.0L NA V10 making 650 bhp and 550 lb/ft torque. A real revving screamer but I dream .
Ranger
I'd be happy with the F1 engine BMW made so many years ago. 6.1L V12 with 621 HP and something like an 8000 RPM redline!!! That was 10+ years ago. Think what they could do now.
Curio you're right. BMW ///M has sold their soul.
If you have an M5/M6 S85 keep it. It will mean something.
Sad day to see this day coming.
My dream has been for the ///M division to develop a 7.0L NA V10 making 650 bhp and 550 lb/ft torque. A real revving screamer but I dream .
On another note, there's a TT S85 built motor coming. I know it's been a long time coming but the project has been intensive. I have struggled through the patience believe me BUT it will be outrageous.
There will also be simpler kits, stages I & II. Running lower boost without internals. Approx. 700 to 750 bhp.
Stay tuned.
Ranger
+1 on soul comment
closest you get to a 7.0L NA s85 is the dinan stroker although thats only 5.7L but it does make 620ish hp if i recall...
stop teasing us with details and deliver the goods on the TTs85, so this way someone can shoehorn that into a e30M
I am inbetween liking and loathing this car...i guess it all depends if bmw copies the cookie cutter nonsense mercedes owners get out of the amg engines or if bmw makes the engine unique with each engine for each ''class'' of M car
+1...and it would seem that early reports show that the "M" division is going down that route.....the cause??
CAFE regulations 1st and foremost....and the economy....BMW cites high costs for builds of unique "M"'s as the reason.
FYI FI in BMW's is not new....while the 2002 Turbo was never badged an M..you could make the arguement it was
What always made the "M" brand so special was the fact that they gave you NA motors that put out 100hp/litre....now that is something and only a handful of manufacturers can claim that...
I know the earlier E30 M3's that we saw didnt...but the ones in Europe sure did......
I will hold my judgement until the F10 M5 is finally released...and I get some seat time in one....then I will let BMW know with my wallet if they made a good call.
I currently have an E92 and while it is alot of fun to drive....my fav. M was my E39 M5....very good hp and 5.0 V8 torque...not a screamer like the V10.....but nice nonetheless.
S
I am a current BMW customer, as well as having purchased 4 BMW's in the past 8 years, so I know what I want. What I want is a top of the line naturally aspirated motor in a balanced package in my M car. You are telling me what I want in an M? I have the car and I could care less about fuel economy. M cars were always the next best thing to a ferrari or GT3, not anymore.
Preach on but I don't think they'll get it until Porsche bring FI to the GT3
Does anyone want FI in a GT3, nope. Neither do M owners...
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