Scuderia test in EVO mag

[fcar348]

can someone post a link to the evo article?
thanks

[iceman996]

Originally Posted by Hamann7

My message to Scuderia owners: Bring it on.

Cars should be pretty close, with edge going to GT2 since it has more power, torque

Sport Auto tests GT2 faster than Scud in Super Test on both Nring and Hockenheim. Top Gear's Clarkson says GT2 is faster than Scud on track as well.

I laugh when people cite the Road and Track garbage test with senile Steve Millen behind the wheel. Where the guy pulled 1:33 in a 997 GT2, behind the underpowered Audi R8. I was talking with Cort Wagner the other day and he was saying that R&T should hire someone who has actually raced recently. CW did sub 1:30's in a 996 GT2 on Cup tires and 1:30 flat in a stock 996 GT3 with Cups, and 1:32-3 in a stock Elise. Even without much effort, I did high 1:30's in my old 996 GT3. So to cite the R&T test is a joke, and seems to contradict just about every other test out there.

I agree with you the driver needs to be changed, but the question is even the driver is not the best, it is the same driver who test all cars. I am assuming GT2 should at least beat the GTR?

[kevin1244]

I had the priviledge of a ride in a good buddies Scud and I can tell you the car is beyond belief. I won't be surprised if it beats the GT2 around any track. Got the power/weight ratio, got the handling of Schumacher type tuning, and all the nonesense about the dry weight vs with fluids don't make sense at all. It does not take anything away from the GT2 that the Scud beats it narrowly. If anything, GT-R perhaps beats both on any track, so what. A challenge that Porsche needs to answer. To the relief of Porsche owners, the built quality of Scud does not come close to our Porsche's. So, your cars will age very well (albeit the price does not as well as a Scud) compared to any Ferrari. Enjoy your cars for what they are.

[Hamann7]

And how much seat time have you had in a 997 GT2 to compare to a "ride" in your friend's Scuderia?

As far as prices are concerned, don't worry, the 430 market is in the toilet right now too... so much for that almighty resale value

[fcar348]

in the toilet???!!!

please let me know where i can get a used 430 spider for less than it was new. i will pay cash. prefer grey with grey top/red interior but will be flexible.

thanks. if this is true our economy is in worse shape than i thought.

[TheCreditMan]

Originally Posted by Hamann7

And how much seat time have you had in a 997 GT2 to compare to a "ride" in your friend's Scuderia?

As far as prices are concerned, don't worry, the 430 market is in the toilet right now too... so much for that almighty resale value

The 430 market is hardly "in the toilet", but assuming it is, it took 4 years for that to happen. Further, the Scuderia market is a different buying group.

Comparing the 430 to a Scuderia is like comparing a 997 to a GT2. It's a misguided comparison. Thus, Scuderia buyers are willing to pay well over MSRP to procure one.

I would like to own a 7 GT2, but I'm waiting for prices to fall to, or below, list. This should occur very soon.

[dakine]

I'm sorry guys. Ferrari Scuds are all ringers too, just as the GTR. There is no way it is that fast. Ferrari is just sending ringers to all the mags. Porsche is the only company that sends proper production cars to magazines to test.

[kevin1244]

Originally Posted by Hamann7

And how much seat time have you had in a 997 GT2 to compare to a "ride" in your friend's Scuderia?

As far as prices are concerned, don't worry, the 430 market is in the toilet right now too... so much for that almighty resale value

I said I would not be surprised if it beat the GT2, I did not draw any direct comparisons. Based on my GT3 performance, the Turbo that I have had seat time in, a 996 Ruf GT2 that I have had a ride in, the ride in the Scuderia, and all the information out there, it is not surprising if Scud shows up faster than a 997 GT2, that is all. Your emotional response certainly shows how much rational thinking is behind your reasoning, if any.
Face it buddy, your Porsche WILL lose value, the Ferrari's do keep their value, IT IS A FACT. Again, enjoy your car for what it is. I am not a Ferrari owner and I love my GT3. If I had the means, I would have added a Ferrari to my stable while keeping the Porsche, so go figure.

[sr71]

would love to have it in the stable

[Hamann7]

Originally Posted by TheCreditMan

The 430 market is hardly "in the toilet", but assuming it is, it took 4 years for that to happen. Further, the Scuderia market is a different buying group.

Comparing the 430 to a Scuderia is like comparing a 997 to a GT2. It's a misguided comparison. Thus, Scuderia buyers are willing to pay well over MSRP to procure one.

I would like to own a 7 GT2, but I'm waiting for prices to fall to, or below, list. This should occur very soon.

Hmmm... well I guess you can explain why my friend's mint condition 2005 430 with less than 2000 miles is having trouble finding a buyer at 170k?

The difference between a 430 and a Scud is hardly as dramatic as comparing a C2 to a GT2. Funny enough, there are a few Scuderias with 100K over stickers that are still sitting at the dealers? I can personally get one for 50K over, and one of these days, I just might.

As for the 7 GT2, time will tell how fast prices will fall. In the meanwhile, I'm going to thoroughly enjoy mine until its replacement comes out. You don't know what you're missing... it's performance is unreal

[Hamann7]

Originally Posted by kevin1244

I said I would not be surprised if it beat the GT2, I did not draw any direct comparisons. Based on my GT3 performance, the Turbo that I have had seat time in, a 996 Ruf GT2 that I have had a ride in, the ride in the Scuderia, and all the information out there, it is not surprising if Scud shows up faster than a 997 GT2, that is all. Your emotional response certainly shows how much rational thinking is behind your reasoning, if any.
Face it buddy, your Porsche WILL lose value, the Ferrari's do keep their value, IT IS A FACT. Again, enjoy your car for what it is. I am not a Ferrari owner and I love my GT3. If I had the means, I would have added a Ferrari to my stable while keeping the Porsche, so go figure.

Once again, try actually driving a GT2 and a Scud back to back if you want your comparison to have any merit.

Why you think my response is emotional is beyond me, I can have pretty much any car I really want and I chose the GT2 over the Scuderia. I also chose my GT2 regardless of what future prices will be like, after all I have a 996 version too.

You obviously have no clue about the tumultuous Ferrari market right now. Go check EBay and see how strong those 430 values really are. There are low mileage spyders trading well below sticker. Wholesale on a 2005 430 with minimal miles is hovering around 160ish, with values inching down every day per one of the largest Ferrari dealers in the country.

But once again, I really don't worry too much about these things. You want to drive an appreciating asset, buy a vintage car.

Your analysis based on empirical "evidence" about your GT3, Turbo and a ride in a Ruf-modified 996 GT2 is truly laughable. I guess you really aren't too aware about the various improvements made to this version. In a direct comparison with a friend's GT3-RS, I literally walked away from it without even shifting at redline by 3rd gear. The 997 Turbo is an even further stretch, as it's a very different car with a different suspension, drivetrain, and turbo/intake setup... the smaller VTGs give instant boost but run out of steam at the midrange compared to the GT2, while the AWD system still feels antiseptic like the 996 version. As for the 996 version, I actually happen to still have mine, and I can tell you once again, the new one is much better, especially in the handling department with its new roll centers, pick up points, and geometry correction. So unless the one you drove has different uprights, control arms, tie rods, and shocks, I doubt you can really make a fair comparison. In fact, the GT2 suspension is even more advanced than the RS, let alone your GT3. And that is A FACT.

A GT-R is a bigger threat to a GT2 than a Scuderia.

So do yourself a favor and go drive one and then let's see what you think. I do enjoy my car for what it is: the fastest production 911 ever made, and a hell of a lot faster than your GT3.

[MITengineer]

To anyone who wants to keep shouting about N-ring times and 0.7 second differences, lets just say I could think of more exciting conversations with a halibut.

Who honestly cares. Is a 430 Scud Fast: Yes. Is a GT2 Fast: Yes.

Would anyone notice an empirical difference in speed: No.

You could have any performance car you wanted and chose a GT2, others chose a Scud, thats the beauty of opinions in and of themselves. I would never assume you made the 'right' choice, just the right choice for yourself.

[ALPINE6SPD]

The scud is faster but does it really matter? Both are awseome cars and somthing as minor as this should not sway you to buy one over the other IMO.

[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by Hamann7

And how much seat time have you had in a 997 GT2 to compare to a "ride" in your friend's Scuderia?

As far as prices are concerned, don't worry, the 430 market is in the toilet right now too... so much for that almighty resale value

In the toilet???? That is a gross exaggeration. Resale on that car is better than a GT2 for sure. The GT3 resale is better than a GT2 historically.

[TheCreditMan]

Originally Posted by Hamann7

Hmmm... well I guess you can explain why my friend's mint condition 2005 430 with less than 2000 miles is having trouble finding a buyer at 170k?

One friend trying to sell an 05 430 does not a market make. Is your friend's car a manual 6 Speed, an F1, what color? Where has your friend tried to sell the car? FML? EBay? Can you provide your friend's phone number, as my partner may buy the car. He won't waste his time.

Originally Posted by Hamann7

Funny enough, there are a few Scuderias with 100K over stickers that are still sitting at the dealers? I can personally get one for 50K over, and one of these days, I just might.

I'll buy the Scuderia at $50K over. IMMEDIATELY! Can you please provide the name of the seller. For that information I'll also pay you a finder's fee or donate $5K to your favorite charity.

Originally Posted by Hamann7

As for the 7 GT2, time will tell how fast prices will fall. In the meanwhile, I'm going to thoroughly enjoy mine until its replacement comes out. You don't know what you're missing... it's performance is unreal

True. BTW, according to some members of Rennlist there are GT2s available at list now. Maybe these guys are B.S. artists, who knows.

Again, I would appreciate the information on the 430 and the Scud.

Enjoy your wonderful car!