Seeking advice - unusual instructor behavior

[911TurboS2]

Folks-

I am seeking some advice. I had an instructor ask to ride with me, which is usually fine (PCA). However, I believe that she endangered my driving by widely gesticulating, putting her hands in front of my face obstructing my vision, being unable to communicate, etc. I should have pulled into the pits, and asked her what the heck was going on.

Her response was that I had 'bad habits' (could be true), but her details were all wrong - she had mistaken what gears I had used in a variety of corners, and was angry and not constructive. I am nice fellow and open to anything that will improve my driving skills (I have been signed off since 2002 and do instruct). I talked to the Chief Instructors and we will see what happens. I am open to whatever makes sense.

Just a word of caution - if another instructor wants to ride with you, be clear about the method of communication and the ground rules before heading out to the track.

Otherwise, everything went fine, except the main Summit Point Track is getting worse and worse. My wife did better and better, and is close to being signed off.

Thanks in advance for listening.

So we had fun. Here are some photos...

[VSE Chuck]

your first instinct was the correct one...you should have pulled into the pits and had a discussion about communication, your bad habits and apparently the instructor's "bad habits"...if the two of you couldn't work it out, and you are "signed off" then you should have asked this particular instructor to get the hell out of your car.... if you wanted to work on your "bad habits" you could have gone to the chief instructor and requested a different instructor (perhaps one you had worked with before and could communicate with)...we all want to improve and sometimes improvement can come from the oddest places...

[NorthVan997C2S]

I am not even close the instructor level, and I find that every instructor has a different approach. I am always open to new ideas, but I would never allow an instructor, or passenger to act that way in my car.

Please post a follow up to let us know what the outcome is.

[BoxsterGirlie01]

i've had several instructors as well, and of course i have my favorites. like teachers in school , all of their methods are different. when you get a good instructor they are worth their weight in gold. but when you get one that you don't click with, it can make a fun time into a negative experience and sometimes discourage you from wanting to continue.

when i have one of my less favored instructors offer to ride with me, i just tell them that i want to try some other instructors. that way i can get different opinions about my driving.

i do think it's a good idea to go to the chief instructor. perhaps others have had a similar experience with her and until someone says something nothing will be done.

best of luck to you. i hope it all works out!

[SWATDoc]

Be careful out there, just because someone is an "instructor" it doesn't mean that they aren't dangerous. I too had a bad experience with an "instructor" that "just wanted a ride in a GT3" and coincidentally it was with PCA. I believe that it is the individual and not the club as I have had other very competent instructors with not only PCA, but also with Chin and Skip Barber. I was lucky enough to have video proof of his wild arm swinging and dangerous behavior during the ride. Now I use caution with anyone, and remember that it is the guy behind the wheel that is ultimately in charge.

[WOODTSTER]

Instructor should have headset to headset communication, and shut up for a couple of
laps unless you are endangering him/her. We are lucky to have a great staff of instructors in our local Porsche Club (Nord Stern). Also, you can be a fantastic driver
and a terrible instructor, good instructors are a rare commodity. IMHO.

MK

[911TurboS2]

Thanks everyone for your feedback-

It is great to get support from the group. After 16 years (I guess that dates me) of driving at the track, I had never had an experience like that with what is essentially an 'invited instructor' (although I did not invite her). I almost went off turn 10 at Summit point because of her behavior, and I guess I am still a bit angry about the whole ordeal. It makes one want to go to the track only with the commercial groups (Chin, etc) or start a POC chapter up here in the DC area. Porsche Racing Club would be great too, except they are sort of a 'spec' series.

Kind regards - Gerry

07 GT3 RS

[sheim911rs]

I'm a PCA instructor and as others have said you should have followed your first instinct. Also, if you have an instructor that is not a good fit you certainly should ask for a reassignment.....as in anything, certain teachers/instructors fit better than others. Also, as a student, spend some time really trying to discuss what exactly you're looking for out of the experience (the instructor should try to clarify this at the beginning). Good luck!

['ringmeister]

A big problem with instructors is a lack of consistency in driving style between them. you will do a weekend with a particular instructor at a particular track and use their line, etc. the next time you are at the same track with a differant instructor they want you to drive a completely differant line. it often has to do with the fact they they drive very differant cars, instructor A drives a 400HP "point & shoot" mustang, and instructor B drives a momentum low-HP front drive car. they often seem to lack enough general knowledge and experience to adapt instructing to differant car types. I've had some good ones, but i've had some bad ones also, particularly with car guys & FATT. I'm happy that i've been driving solo for years, but it's a shame that i've been somewhat soured to using instructors because even the best drivers (don't claim to be one of them) can benefit from good instruction.

[PJS]

pit lane... discussion (nice guy)
pit lane... GET OUT (not so nice, but effective)

I vote for the latter as a discussion eats up valuable track time...

[Rec Racing]

I also instruct for PCA, NASA, and other groups. Instructors should have the skills to teach different styles based on car type, skill levels, etc. Although I race rear wheel drive Porsches I can communicate to a front wheel drive Honda driver. Also instructors should teach based on the the student level, some experienced students are ready for the "racing line" while others are not. Again an open dialog about wants and needs of the student prior to getting in the car is key. Lastly, if you are not learning and not having fun, see the Chief Instructor! Most of the instructors are there close to free because you are picking up the tab.

[iLLM3]

Originally Posted by WOODTSTER

Instructor should have headset to headset communication, and shut up for a couple of
laps unless you are endangering him/her. We are lucky to have a great staff of instructors in our local Porsche Club (Nord Stern). Also, you can be a fantastic driver
and a terrible instructor, good instructors are a rare commodity. IMHO.

MK

Couldn't agree more.. Thanks god, every single one of my instructors took almost the same approach, which Marty mentioned and that is what works well with me!

That sounded dangerous , not cool!

[vincentdds]

Good communication is the key to teaching. Don't hesitate to kick instructor out of your car if you feel uncomfortable. That said, don't let that one bad experience ruin your enjoyment at the track.

[sws1]

Which summit point circuit are you referring to when you say it's getting worse and worse?

I'm going to Shenandoah in Sept.

[BOYRACER]

I have instructed with a wide range of car clubs and organizations and you did the right thing by reporting her to the chief driving instructor. In no way should she be obstructing any of your driving. This is a big no no. There is also something most instructors call the 5-10min meet/interview portion of your day which happens to be some of the most important time the two of you will spend together. She should have taken time to interview you and see what your background is, what has been done to your car and then she should have like some others stated, set forth some ways of communication. Every instructor has their own method, but in each case it should be voiced prior to getting in the car so that your student knows how to react to you. Also for her to be all over the place only confuses her students and unsettles their nerves. If what you claim is common behavior from this instructor, she should not be instructing anyone in any car. Its sad, but for the most part, a lot of clubs let anyone with a little experience instruct. This bothers me because bad habits are very hard to break in a track setting and having someone teach you incorrectly can not only hinder your ability to gain the correct skills, but can also be physically dangerous and costly.