GT3/GT2/GTPerformance and Track Discussion on the Porsche GT3, GT2, and the Carrera GT Sponsored by Autodynamica
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I have never driven the car but one has come available that caught my attention . Often one sees posts in the 997 and 997tt folders where a street car is modified to be track capable. How about the visa versa ? If I buy the Gt3 can I make the track car street versatile?
1) Can this car be a daily driver ?
2) This car has sports bucket seats . With the street Porsches sports adaptives are usually not a negative . Has anyone blended street comforts into the car?
3) Bose is bad enough and this car doesn't even offer it at all . How is the factory system ?
4) I have a stage 4 non power assist clutch in my 700 Turbo . How does a stock Gt3 clutch compare ? (I would not be the only driver) .
So I thought about this car . In informal discussions it was pointed out to me that my modded PDK car has more daily comfort and my Turbo Evt700 has a lot more speed .
I look at the gt3 and it just seems so wonderfully basic and engaging but I'm not a track driver just a guy who looks at this car like its a rare art form and in many ways the last pure Porsche . I just don't know if I would be happier with it or without it . I want to find out .
Just to balance the opinions I will also post this in the 997 forum .
Thanks in advance.
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The biggest issue on the subject of street car vs. track car is the fact that one can quickly end up making your own car too harsh for the street and yet still too soft for track.
That said, the category of "take a production car on the track without need to modificate anything" is actually very small. The few cars I can think of, that are daily driveable and at the same time can take a beating on the track, is 911 GT3 and Lotus Elise. These are street production cars that also can be taken on the track and you could run them all day long, then drive it home with ease. The new 430 Scuderia is also relative comfortable and eventhough it's said to be the "race version" of the F430, it's a 100% capable road car.
I think you will be quite happy with a GT3. It's one of the last "back to basics" cars where more is less. As stated above, it's a roadcar. If a 911 Turbo is the perfect sportscar for the real life, the 911 GT3 is the perfect comprimise for the real life. If you enjoy driving, you will quickly forget about the lack of sound isolation compared to your Turbo in an instant. It might lack in power compared to modded Turbo's, but the naturally aspirated engine of the GT3 will charm most of us with its high-revving, amazing sounding and instant power delivery.
IMHO if you are blessed enough to get a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT3, there is no reason not to.
Good luck!
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R.I.P. Ferrari manual shifting gearbox.
The biggest issue on the subject of street car vs. track car is the fact that one can quickly end up making your own car too harsh for the street and yet still too soft for track.
That said, the category of "take a production car on the track without need to modificate anything" is actually very small. The few cars I can think of, that are daily driveable and at the same time can take a beating on the track, is 911 GT3 and Lotus Elise. These are street production cars that also can be taken on the track and you could run them all day long, then drive it home with ease. The new 430 Scuderia is also relative comfortable and eventhough it's said to be the "race version" of the F430, it's a 100% capable road car.
I think you will be quite happy with a GT3. It's one of the last "back to basics" cars where more is less. As stated above, it's a roadcar. If a 911 Turbo is the perfect sportscar for the real life, the 911 GT3 is the perfect comprimise for the real life. If you enjoy driving, you will quickly forget about the lack of sound isolation compared to your Turbo in an instant. It might lack in power compared to modded Turbo's, but the naturally aspirated engine of the GT3 will charm most of us with its high-revving, amazing sounding and instant power delivery.
IMHO if you are blessed enough to get a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT3, there is no reason not to.
Good luck!
Well said
I drive my GT3 as often as I can before the winter arrives, the only down side is the low front lip that scrapes even dips in the road. So far, I just look forward to driving it everyday
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2010 GT3
2010 Audi S4
2009 997 turbo sold
2008 M3 M-DCT sold
2007 997 turbo sold
For a street car or even occasional track car, I'd go with (which I did) the standard Sport Seats. I don't believe the Sport Adaptives are necessary, but I would not get the buckets. If you really want SA's so be it, but for another $2,200 and some added weight, I say no. The buckets are very cool and light but no adjustments whatsoever other than tilt. Not for me.
The stereo is not as good as Bose, which we know is mediocre. However, because the GT3's stereo is analog, modding is very much easier. I would be certain to get the stereo upgrade in the GT3 and look into modding it later. A more powerful amp and improved speakers should not be a problem at all and likely not all that expensive. I have heard that others have done this with no problems. Can't do that with Bose.
Clutch action is stiff, much stiffer than a turbo and stiffer than a Carrera, but not too stiff (that's what she said) for me. I didn't mind it at all and actually prefered it at times.
I have one on order and do not plan on tracking the car at all. I just love the raw feedback that a gt3 provides and the beauty of the car. Granted, I have only tested driven one: a 997.1, however, it was quite a lengthy and "spirited" drive!
I also felt that the car could very, very easily be driven daily. As a weekend warrior/second car no problem whatsoever. I feel I speak with some experience as I have owned a 997tt (too soft), a 997 C2S (not fast enough) and C4S cab (fun, planted, sexy, but not fast enough).
Geez, GT3 and a modded turbo, what could be better in the car world.
Dave: Talking about comfort, I remember you recently had short ownership of a Launch Edition C4S pdk with the P03 sport buckets. You initially thought they would be OK but changed your mind after a couple of long trips. Afterwards, you traded the car on a TT with the Adaptives, which is what you have now on your new gt3. Many enthusiasts at these sites think the P03 sport buckets are a 'must' have option on the 2010 gt3. Can you comment on this from the vantage point of your own experience with them? Also, the optional front axle lift is only operational at under 30 mph. So even if you had it, it would not be of benefit with the dips on the road at speed. Nevertheless, it would help around bumpy in-town streets & driveways. In retrospect, do you wish you would have waited and ordered a '10 gt3 with front lift option? Thanks. z356
The biggest issue on the subject of street car vs. track car is the fact that one can quickly end up making your own car too harsh for the street and yet still too soft for track.
That said, the category of "take a production car on the track without need to modificate anything" is actually very small. The few cars I can think of, that are daily driveable and at the same time can take a beating on the track, is 911 GT3 and Lotus Elise. These are street production cars that also can be taken on the track and you could run them all day long, then drive it home with ease. The new 430 Scuderia is also relative comfortable and eventhough it's said to be the "race version" of the F430, it's a 100% capable road car.
I think you will be quite happy with a GT3. It's one of the last "back to basics" cars where more is less. As stated above, it's a roadcar. If a 911 Turbo is the perfect sportscar for the real life, the 911 GT3 is the perfect comprimise for the real life. If you enjoy driving, you will quickly forget about the lack of sound isolation compared to your Turbo in an instant. It might lack in power compared to modded Turbo's, but the naturally aspirated engine of the GT3 will charm most of us with its high-revving, amazing sounding and instant power delivery.
IMHO if you are blessed enough to get a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT3, there is no reason not to.
Good luck!
+1 . Many of the ideas you've shared echo my sentiment . Now I just have to decide if its really worth it to make the change . My PDK car has only 700 miles and with 17K worth of mods it really splits hairs with the Gt3 in many areas . PDK gives a little edge in shifting and the Dfi has this very immediate response.
Yet the Gt3 is so basic and pure. I don't expect anything to take away from my Turbo . Even the sound of the Tubi race exhaust comes as close to a normally aspirated growl with a spooling howl .
Currently I made an offer and it's at the stalemate phase . The ECU is in transport to Germany so with the car not driveable until late in the wekk it can't be fully appraised .
They didn't say yes or no.
I didb't say yes or no.
We shook hands and said 'lets wait and see " .
It gives everyone time to think as well as one last chance to drive my PDK car too before deciding one way or the other .
Comfort isn't too bad. It's harsh, but not unmanageable. I only really notice on bad roads. Clearance is a significant issue, though. There are places I just can't go in the GT3 that were no problem in my old C2S. Even the places I can go sometimes involve scrapes and scratches on the front lip.
If you don't aspire to track the car (which I would encourage you to consider) I don't know that the move to a GT3 really makes sense. The GT3, despite being a street car, is built for the track. The benefits and pleasures it offers above and beyond a "normal" 911 really don't present themselves on public roads. On the street my GT3 is just a bumpy, noisy 911 that can't park at my favorite restaurant. On the track it's a transcendent machine that produces pure bliss. I happily endure the street compromises because I have those track days to compensate.
If I never tracked the car I don't think I would have or even want the GT3. You'll just never discover the benefits of a GT3 over a Carrera S on public roads.
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Dave: Talking about comfort, I remember you recently had short ownership of a Launch Edition C4S pdk with the P03 sport buckets. You initially thought they would be OK but changed your mind after a couple of long trips. Afterwards, you traded the car on a TT with the Adaptives, which is what you have now on your new gt3. Many enthusiasts at these sites think the P03 sport buckets are a 'must' have option on the 2010 gt3. Can you comment on this from the vantage point of your own experience with them? Also, the optional front axle lift is only operational at under 30 mph. So even if you had it, it would not be of benefit with the dips on the road at speed. Nevertheless, it would help around bumpy in-town streets & driveways. In retrospect, do you wish you would have waited and ordered a '10 gt3 with front lift option? Thanks. z356
Hi,
As far as the seats go, I've had all the recent seats offered for the US on the 996 ~ 997 Series cars. The Adaptive Sports Seats are great but they are heavy and for me, I don't notice enough benefits from them to justify the added cost and weight. The Sports buckets look great and felt great to me at 1st, but after a few weeks and some added miles, it was just to uncomfortable for me in a non track car. The absence of rake adjustments and the difficult ingress and egress was too much for this old guy
SO for the GT3 I went with the Std Sports seats. I had the option of waiting till the front axle lift option to come online before ordering but decided it wasn't a deal breaker for me and I'm not sure if I really wanted to spend the $3500 for it. So far I've scraped the lip a few times but no visible damage. I Just love the raw feel of driving the GT3, leave a grin on my face after each drive
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2010 GT3
2010 Audi S4
2009 997 turbo sold
2008 M3 M-DCT sold
2007 997 turbo sold
Comfort isn't too bad. It's harsh, but not unmanageable. I only really notice on bad roads. Clearance is a significant issue, though. There are places I just can't go in the GT3 that were no problem in my old C2S. Even the places I can go sometimes involve scrapes and scratches on the front lip.
If you don't aspire to track the car (which I would encourage you to consider) I don't know that the move to a GT3 really makes sense. The GT3, despite being a street car, is built for the track. The benefits and pleasures it offers above and beyond a "normal" 911 really don't present themselves on public roads. On the street my GT3 is just a bumpy, noisy 911 that can't park at my favorite restaurant. On the track it's a transcendent machine that produces pure bliss. I happily endure the street compromises because I have those track days to compensate.
If I never tracked the car I don't think I would have or even want the GT3. You'll just never discover the benefits of a GT3 over a Carrera S on public roads.
You are correct on all logical points . Of course buying these cars generally pits emotional reasoning against logic . It's certainly cheaper to buy a different car and one can even argue is there any purpose of driving around in a circle at the track too.
I'm just pointing out the obvious wrestling with the decision and if I insert 100 percent logical reasoning .. you are right .. it makes no sense to buya Gt3 for the street especially if trading in a new PDK car to do it.
Hence the stalemate .
If i keep the PDK --the Gt3 lingers
If I trade the PDK - gt3 +cost = impractical
If I simply keep the Turbo and eliminate the second Porsche -- I cherish the Turbo too much . It's my garage queen and I am just too attached to it.
No matter what i choose there's a flip side .
The only difference is I have yet to see a person post anywhere that he was miserable with a Gt3 as a street car.
So i remain on the fence .. but your post does open a counterpoint which has me re examining my position .
I feel your pain to quote an ex president. I'm in exactly the same quandry. Not sure what i'm going to do either. The PDK launch car is so nice every time I drive it I wonder why I'm even considering moving on to the GT3 but cars come and cars go and I guess it's all about the expierence of the indivdual cars. I hope you just enjoy what ever car you end up with but keep the Turbo for sure. Cheers,
Hi,
As far as the seats go, I've had all the recent seats offered for the US on the 996 ~ 997 Series cars. The Adaptive Sports Seats are great but they are heavy and for me, I don't notice enough benefits from them to justify the added cost and weight. The Sports buckets look great and felt great to me at 1st, but after a few weeks and some added miles, it was just to uncomfortable for me in a non track car. The absence of rake adjustments and the difficult ingress and egress was too much for this old guy
SO for the GT3 I went with the Std Sports seats. I had the option of waiting till the front axle lift option to come online before ordering but decided it wasn't a deal breaker for me and I'm not sure if I really wanted to spend the $3500 for it. So far I've scraped the lip a few times but no visible damage. I Just love the raw feel of driving the GT3, leave a grin on my face after each drive
I had the sport bucket seats in my MY08 Turbo that I traded in on my newly aquired 2010 GT3. The bucket seats were awful to get in and out of. when i ordered the GT3 i just got the sport seats, and not the adaptive sport seats. the bucket seats were great at the track, but on a 200 mile journey, awful. and for daily in and out...nada!!
i traded the turbo because I had an 06 C4S that I loved, and ordered an 08 turbo because it was faster. Because i do track some, and where i live are lots of twistie roads, I did not like the turbos lack of respionsiveness. It was just not visceral enough for me. I traded it after only 14 months on my 2010 Gt3 Allocation.
i currently own an 07 997 turbo and a 2010 gt3. the turbo is well modded but so is the gt3 now. if you were to ask me which car i would take, i always jump into the gt3. my turbo has become a daily driver with the gt3 for unfettered fun. if i had to choose one, i would keep the gt3 hands down. i gave the turbo to my wife for her fun, because she isn't as agressive as i am on the road. the turbo just does not respond (vtg turbos or not) the way the gt3 does in both power and cornering. i had my son driving behind me in the turbo through some canyons near monterey. he could not catch me even on straights with full throttle. so power issue is reallyl moot and with the gt3, the power is instant, no lag.
bottom line, if you can, have both. the turbo for comfort driving, the gt3 for true fun. and it can be a daily driver, just not as soft as the turbo.
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CURRENT: 07 TURBO SPEED YELLOW
PAST: 1972 911T COUPE, 1977 911S COUPE, 1979 911SC TARGA, 1999 CARRERA 2 COUPE, 2003 TURBO
FUTURE: 2010 GT3 (DUE FIRST WEEK OF AUGUST)
the turbo just does not respond (vtg turbos or not) the way the gt3 does in both power and cornering.
Linear powerband= beautiful thing.
Having owned various turbos and naturally aspirated vehicles over the past years I have come to the conclusion the turbos are fricken crazy fun for momentary excitement. Or great 60-90 mph passing maneuvers.
And the NA engine is my choice for any kind of driving that requires precise and predictable power delivery (track).
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2010 GT3RS Blue/Gold, PCCB, LiON Battery, Front axle lift, NAV, AUX, XM. Feb 8th Build.
2009 C4S Meteor Grey/Carrera Red Interior, PCCB, AMT Tech1-109's (Matte Black), PDK, FVD Brombacher Full Exhaust System, Sport PASM, etc
2009 Cayenne GTS Meteor Grey/Sand, Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control, 18" Nitto Terra Grapplers/Victor Zehn (Matte Black)
You are correct on all logical points . Of course buying these cars generally pits emotional reasoning against logic . It's certainly cheaper to buy a different car and one can even argue is there any purpose of driving around in a circle at the track too.
I'm just pointing out the obvious wrestling with the decision and if I insert 100 percent logical reasoning .. you are right .. it makes no sense to buya Gt3 for the street especially if trading in a new PDK car to do it.
Hence the stalemate .
If i keep the PDK --the Gt3 lingers
If I trade the PDK - gt3 +cost = impractical
If I simply keep the Turbo and eliminate the second Porsche -- I cherish the Turbo too much . It's my garage queen and I am just too attached to it.
No matter what i choose there's a flip side .
The only difference is I have yet to see a person post anywhere that he was miserable with a Gt3 as a street car.
So i remain on the fence .. but your post does open a counterpoint which has me re examining my position .
The solution: Drive the turbo man! What good is a car sitting in the garage?
If you enjoy driving, you will quickly forget about the lack of sound isolation compared to your Turbo in an instant. It might lack in power compared to modded Turbo's, but the naturally aspirated engine of the GT3 will charm most of us with its high-revving, amazing sounding and instant power delivery.
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