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I must say that up until recently the Porsche enthusiasts were enthused of a company not a companies specific product. This is unique to Ferrari and Aston as well. Not sure how many Ferrari gatherings you've attended but both other companies have an increadible turn out relative to the number of autos Aston and Ferrari have produced. One thing they all have in common. These companies have held true to what they are and have been from day one. Unfortunately I feel that Porsche is being divided into sectors of enthusiasts. Look at Ford and Chevrolet where there are various groups of enthusiasts of a particular model. [Ford/Mustang specific or Chevrolet/Corvette specific.] I feel that unlike Ferrari and Aston, Porsche is moving towards that dynamic. I don't see Rennsport Reunion being about the porsche Cayenne. Unlike Ferrari and Aston, Porsche product is not as clearly define as it was 15 years ago. Porsche needs to also sell their heritage to buyers who are coming into the market place. They will need to work harder on that than Ferrari or Aston. The current return buyers will only last so long. We die.
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That looks great! Before BMW got fat and lazy this is the type of car you could expect from them. Many people will buy this car instead of a 911 (because of the shortcomings of 911, noise space) and regardless of how fast it is on the ring. Of course I will not go into the showroom without knowing the ring numbers and I know many other people that feel exactly the same way and it BETTER beat the GTR otherwise forget it.
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Michael
08 AMG E63
05 GT3 (gone but missed)
04 Cayenne
Last edited by quartermile; 11-03-2009 at 01:09 PM.
The difference between Porsche and Ferrari & AM was Porsche was still independent and needed to diversify in order to stay that way. They had to make the Boxster and the Cayenne to remain solvent and independent. Many Porsche enthusiasts didn't like that but it was neccessary. It never bothered me because I felt Porsche remained true to their philosophy when they built the other cars: make 'em sporty and make 'em with quality. It darn sure worked too because Porsche had all kinds of money and were still bringing us great sports cars and winning auto races. The new 997.5 TT and GT3, which are fabulous cars, had their beginnings under independent Porsche. Then things went all to Hades and Porsche is no longer independent and it looks like Piech wants them to stick to sports cars again, but I never held the diversification against them. I liked the fact that they seemed to have the golden touch no matter what they built.
That looks great! Before BMW got fat and lazy this is the type of car you could expect from them. Many people will buy this car instead of a 911 (because of the shortcomings of 911, noise space) and regardless of how fast it is on the ring. Of course I will not go into the showroom without knowing the ring numbers and I know many other people that feel exactly the same way and it BETTER beat the GTR otherwise forget it.
Many people buy cars w/o looking at ring times; I know I do. If the car is slower than the GTR, who cares? Ring times are just one way to compare performance (or cars overall). There are many cars that are slower than it. If a person has to worry about ring times when purchasing a car, that person should probably be spending more of his money on therapy.
I'd take this car over a 911 strictly for the space, although it doesn't hurt that the 928 was the first one I've sat in (my dad had a 911 before he got married). I'd like to bring back a 911 or 928 back into the family again, if that counts as "tradition."
The difference between Porsche and Ferrari & AM was Porsche was still independent and needed to diversify in order to stay that way. They had to make the Boxster and the Cayenne to remain solvent and independent. Many Porsche enthusiasts didn't like that but it was neccessary. It never bothered me because I felt Porsche remained true to their philosophy when they built the other cars: make 'em sporty and make 'em with quality. It darn sure worked too because Porsche had all kinds of money and were still bringing us great sports cars and winning auto races. The new 997.5 TT and GT3, which are fabulous cars, had their beginnings under independent Porsche. Then things went all to Hades and Porsche is no longer independent and it looks like Piech wants them to stick to sports cars again, but I never held the diversification against them. I liked the fact that they seemed to have the golden touch no matter what they built.
I complained about the Cayenne (not the Boxster as it reminded me of the 356 roadsters)... but then I realized Porsche started off as an engineering consultancy, not a sports car manufacturer.
'Ring times are fine, history is fine, even building a cayenne. But when they stop building a fun driving sports car that is a winner on track day....My loyalty is out the door. I'll find someone that does. Im sure Porsche knows that its all about me.
That looks great! Before BMW got fat and lazy this is the type of car you could expect from them. Many people will buy this car instead of a 911 (because of the shortcomings of 911, noise space) and regardless of how fast it is on the ring. Of course I will not go into the showroom without knowing the ring numbers and I know many other people that feel exactly the same way and it BETTER beat the GTR otherwise forget it.
You screen name is quartermile but you won't buy a car based on ring numbers......
Beat the GT-R or forget it...... hahahahah does it get any more superficial than that? Once you beat the GT-R, you've still got almost 5 more seconds to the ACR, does it have to beat that too? What about the Radical that ran almost a minute faster than all of them.
I seriously hope you don't call yourself an enthusiast with that mentality. Porsche won't miss you, or your friends.
__________________ The GT-R is harder to drift than a 997 TT or 997 GT3, therefore if you are trying to drift, the GT-R will consequently get a faster lap. Normal apexing and driving not included.
See Evo and Car magazine for details.
Last edited by heavychevy; 11-03-2009 at 06:00 PM.
I still not getting it. Why is a lap time around the ring important. Please tell me why its relevant to anything. Theres like three GTRs at Starbucks every morning. Thats where its important? Its something to talk about over coffee. Give me a break. The GTR isn't being raced unless its the first to 'bucks. And by the way, I can pull into that lot and park my 66 Shelby smack in the middle and you don't even notice that the is a GTR even there. Parked. Nothings moving. I can do that in 1 second flat. Show me that at the Ring! Geez.
How about this. Whos stronger? The guy that presses 500 pounds for one rep or some other guy that presses 400 for 8 reps? And possibly the first guy is taking steroids.....
this new 928 looks great and I think it will be a great seller. I drove the Pana Turbo on the track last week and was so impressed with such a big car being able to handle so well and launch so hard. This one will be even faster. I just hope they give it every chance to be and not limit it so that it cannot be faster than the 911 turbo like they did to the cayman.
As for the ring, there are way to many factors to really make it matter. First and foremost, is TIRES. The same car can run drastically different times with different tires. To compare all these cars you would have to run them all with the exact same model of tire. Take that factor away. Then to make sure that the car isn't a one lap wonder, the car should be run for a series of 10-15 laps in a row, to test driver reliability, auto reliability and comfort and overall brake, tranny, engine reliability. This will mean more and I think you would see a lot of the top times change in favor of cars that were previously thought to be slower.
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I still not getting it. Why is a lap time around the ring important. Please tell me why its relevant to anything. Theres like three GTRs at Starbucks every morning. Thats where its important? Its something to talk about over coffee. Give me a break. The GTR isn't being raced unless its the first to 'bucks. And by the way, I can pull into that lot and park my 66 Shelby smack in the middle and you don't even notice that the is a GTR even there. Parked. Nothings moving. I can do that in 1 second flat. Show me that at the Ring! Geez.
People's lives hang in the balance of how fast a bathtub on wheels can run in a circle in the middle of Germany... it also depends if the bathtub is made in Europe or Japan or America.
... The 928, if made, will probably be heavier by default due to larger space and a bigger engine. It should be engineered as a GT as the 911 as the true sports car. They're fast in their own ways; the feeling should be Porsche but the two should feel different from each other. Personally I cannot tell what the difference would be as I've only driven a 928 once and it felt like a big beast; never been in a Carrera in my life.
Ring time is just one of many performance aspects, this is true. But, Nissan picked the fight. They were aiming square at the 997TT, not the Corvette or the Viper or Lamborghini, etc., there is no doubt about that. The implication was that the GTR was the better sports car at half the price, or there abouts. Then it became pretty obvious Nissan were trying to pull off a BS media blitz, so us folks who are partial to Porsche called them out on it. That's all there is to it. Just having fun and blowing off steam. These are car forums and you are going to have showdowns like this. This just happens to be one of the biggest ones there have been. What are forums for if you can't have a little fun and call out a little BS when you see it? These are just cars, not health care reform or the war on terrorism.
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