What is the difference between the 2014 e hybrid that gets only 22 mpg on electric charge only and the older hybrid?

I am looking at the hybrid market and need a sedan. Tesla model s P85D is what everyone I know is getting. The range on those plus the acceleration is uncanny.

I would like to hear why folks here chose the panamera over the P85D?

 

I think you have to make several decisions, do you want a hybrid or pure electric. Do you want a combination of performance and fun, or something that pure economy. Panamera is available as a hybrid, not pure electric like a Tesla. Telsa is not a hybrid, it is an electric car, if you run out of battery power, well, you are not going anywhere.

Need compare apples to apples. If want to compare a Panamera hybrid to a lexus hybrid, then you have to figure what features you want, what do you like, and how much are you will to pay.

For me, if am going to spend well over 100K a car, then it better WOW me and have a certain comfort level and the P85D does not even come close. The exterior looks sharp, the interior looks cheap, very little options to dress it up. It just does not compare to the class the Panamera is in.

 

Well said.

 

* Much bigger battery. 9.5 kWh vs. 1.7.
* Bigger electric motor - 95 HP vs. 45 HP.
* More total power - 416 HP combined vs. 380.
* Pure electric driving possible up to 80 MPH, vs. I think 20 MPH.
* 14-20 miles of electric-only range, vs. 2.
* You can recharge the battery from an outlet.

"22 MPG on electric" is incorrect. I think you're confusing the range with the efficiency. My observed electric MPG is about 60 MPGe city, 80 highway if I'm driving on the battery alone, no gasoline. Range is 14-20 miles city vs. highway. Which isn't much, but a fair number of routine trips are less than this.

Observed gasoline efficiency is about 18-25 MPG city, 35 highway. City efficiency really depends on how much I'm applying the throttle. Displayed efficiency is often 30-50 MPG, but the car display doesn't count energy used from the battery. The figures I'm quoting are when the battery is depleted.

When I purchased my S e-Hybrid, the P85D didn't exist. I was comparing it to the P85, which has similar power total power figures and weigh about the same.

I chose the Panamera for a variety of reasons:

* There's more to performance than power. The Panamera is a sports car; the Tesla is an overpowered sedan.
* Reliability. Edmunds had to replace the entire power train on their P85 twice in 20,000 miles. Tesla wants to tear the car down once a year, which is why maintenance is so surprisingly pricey. The Model S is pretty much still in beta.
* Range. I put about 1200 miles on the car in the last 4 months on trips that would not be possible with the Tesla. The Supercharger network helps, but they're not everywhere.
* The Tesla plain doesn't look like a sports car to me.

I'm not really perfectly happy with the car. I find that I don't like having to choose between serious acceleration and silent electric power. Just as some people like the roar of a noisy exhaust, I've come to really appreciate the silence when I keep the throttle to the electricity-only range. When I do engage the gasoline engine, the car tends to keep it on for a while afterward, even if I'm back to being stuck behind someone.

I don't really love the car the way I loved my Supra. Too many things about it say "not quite a sports car," including the size and looks. There are times I think I should have held out for a BMW i8.

 

Are you sure? I read on motor trend that pure electric charge takes 3 hrs and,you can drive 22 miles on electric charge alone. It isnt much compared to the Teslas 265 miles per charge but its not too terrible. Are you saying its actually higher range on electric charge only?

 

No, that's not what I said.

MPG and range are two different things.

The range I've seen is about 14 miles on electricity alone in the city, or 20-21 for highway driving. This is not MPG, this is range.

MPGe is Miles Per Gallon Equivalent. The battery holds 9.4 kWh. One gallon of gas is 34 kWh. The battery, then, is like an electric "fuel tank" with 0.276 gallons of electric "gas."

In practice, the car drops out of pure-electric driving when the battery hits 20%, because it's reserving power for starts from a standstill where electric power is much, much better than gas, and for full-power boosts. The power is there, it's just the the car turns on the gasoline engine for cruising.

So range is limited to about 7.5 kWh (80% of 9.4), which is 0.22 gallons of gasoline. How much range you get from that depends on driving conditions. Just like with gas, highway driving is more fuel-efficient, so you get more range. 14 miles of range / 0.22 gallons of "gas" = 63 MPGe. 20 miles of range / 0.22 = 90 MPGe.

Charge time is usually about 2 hours with a 220 volt outlet. It's much, much longer with a 110 volt outlet. The charger draws 16 amps @ 220 = 3.5 kW, but only 10 amps @ 110 = 1.1 kW. Also, lower-voltage charging appears to be flat-out less efficient, taking about 20% longer than you would expect even given the power difference. Either than or it's not drawing the claimed 10 amps. Either way, before I installed a 220 volt outlet, I saw charge times of 10-12 hours.

 

Thanks for explaining. I just care about how many miles I can drive just based on charge alone. The volt can do more, I think about 50 miles range on a single charge. 14 miles isn't that much. That's basic local driving to the supermarket and back on a single 3 hr charge right?

 

Pretty much. It depends on what your local, everyday driving is like.

My usual grocery run is a 8 mile round trip. In theory, I should be able to drive that on electric alone, never using gas. In practice, it doesn't work out that way. The car enters "e-power mode not available" fairly often.

The manual says the e-power is disabled during "automatic combustion checks," to "regenerate fuel tank ventilation after refueling," and if the car has been "parked for extended periods." There are other circumstances that seem to trigger it, like having a lot of overall power demand (heater, 12 volt system needs charging, etc.).

It also tends to enter this mode after the first time I engage the gasoline engine for the day. Some days it's fine driving on electricity until I seriously accelerate for some reason, and then it's "e power not available" for 2-3 minutes.

Keep in mind that I only drive once a week most of the time. People who drive every day may experience it differently.

 

The Volt's range is claimed at 38 miles. I don't know the real range in practice.

Leaving aside that the Volt is a completely different demographic, no one interested in a high-performance 416 HP car is going to seriously compare it to a 150 HP family car, it's a very different animal in overall design.

From most-electric to least:

Tesla makes electric cars. The P85 has a range of 265 miles. "85" refers to the 85 kWh battery. Most pure-electrics have 20-30 kWh batteries and 80-100 mile range.

The Volt and the BMW i3 are electric cars with auxiliary gasoline engines that recharge the battery. The gas engine cannot drive the wheels directly, it only provides electricity. The Volt has a range of 38 miles; the BMW i3 has a range of 81 miles. The Volt has a 16 kWh battery but only wants to use 8 kWh to extend service life of the battery. The i3 has a 22 kWh battery.

The Panamera S e Hybrid is a plug-in hybrid. It can run on gas, electricity, or both. To get the full 416 HP, you use both. The battery's a lot smaller than an electric car like the Tesla model S, or an electric car with a range extender like the Volt. No plug-in hybrid has EV or EREV sized batteries.

The 9.4 kWh battery in the PSeH is about as big as they get in this category, though lighter cars get more range since the have better MPGe. The Accord Plug in has a 6.7 kWh battery, for example, and the plug-in version of the Prius has a 4.4 kWh battery.

"Regular" hybrids like the original Prius have tiny batteries, 1-2 kWh, that are only intended to assist the gasoline engine. When the PSeH battery drops to 20%, it behaves pretty much like one of these, charging the battery when braking, and then using that power again for the initial acceleration, but using gas otherwise.

 

I live close enough to drive on almost pure battery so it works out.. assuming i just got to and from work the engine will kick on just as I'm pulling into my driveway..

the problem i run into is the attention the car gets when I'm out and about " i didn't know Porsche made a 4 door "

 

How often do you get the "No E-Power" symbol? It's the same as the blue "E Power" symbol, only it's gray and crossed out.

I drove to the hardware store this morning, and the car started the gasoline engine when I turned the key, wouldn't even use battery to back out of the garage. It stayed on for 5 minutes exactly, and then started behaving normally.

I wonder if it was warming the battery up or something. It was 18 degrees out.

I've gotten far, far less attention in the Panamera than I did in the Supra Turbo. I've had one person stop me to ask questions as I pulled out of the driveway, and one person give me a thumbs up on an expressway, but I used to get 2-3 people waving or asking about the Supra a month.

 

I want to say i havnt really noticed it.. normally when im pulling in at the end of the day it will tell me epower deactivated... i wish i hard a charger at work but they wont allow it ( i even offered to pay for it)

i live down south so i assume thats the reason i get the looks i've only see two other panameras here ( one guy moved from NY and the other guy is a real estate developer ) im told that theres a saints player that lives here that owns one the same color as mine but i've not seen it ( i dont live in louisiana so its a surprise to me )

 

Did they say what their objection was? If it's the continuing cost of electricity, they're not thinking about the real costs, which are trivial. Even in the pricier regions, it's at most $2 to fully charge the car, which is tiny compared to salary costs.

If they had an outdoor outlet anywhere near where you park, you could always use something like a Turbocord. I used mine on my Christmas trip to the in-laws, and ended up recharging the car something like 5-6 times, far more than I expected too.

One thing that was interesting is that the Turbocord charged the car a lot faster on 110 than the Porsche charger. Generally it was done in 6 hours at most, vs. 10+ for the Porsche unit.

 

it was two fold ( i work for the gov) 1 who pays for the electricity and it would require someone a few levels up to approve it

 

Same here. I get more attention on the Panamera than I ever did on my 911 Cab. I find it rather strange. Couple of people have come up to me at different times asking or saying "this looks fast" or "how fast have you driven it". I am guessing its the acid green calipers and badges that stand out on the black car.

Also on the Tesla, I may have mentioned it earlier, if Tesla improves its interior, I'd buy it in a heart beat. The interior (where I'd be spending most of my time) is inferior in quality and looks cheap.