You got the led but you want to change it to hid? Why? I thought the new led is better.

 

People assume by default that the newer technology is better (as it should be) but that really isn't the case the LED vs HID headlights ....yet. There are good and poor examples of each technology but in general HID is still supreme big picture and will be around for a bit longer. LED will have a prominent role in automotive lighting for many years to come due to the efficiency and small footprinted required for a light.

LEDs are superior due to the flexibility offered by the small size, you can easily fit 10+ LEDs in a headlight and easily create a "dynamic" output simply by selecting and deselecting individual LEDs. The best example of LED technology on the market is the new Mercedes multi-beam which stuff 84 small diodes behind a projector lens in each headlight yes, ~170 LEDs for the headlights which give a great amount of lighting resolution and control.

HIDs are superior for light intensity. LEDs have a hard time matching the intensity and overcoming thermal challenges. A HID bulb will put out roughly 3,000 lumens and there are plenty of LED light bars and offroad lights which can easily beat that but none of them can put that kind of power out and be small enough to fit in a headlight and meet DOT and NHSTA requirements.

The reality is most of the new LED headlights are not all that great but people get excited over the "tech" and the blueish white output but the actual performance isn't up to snuff. Personally I don't have any first-hand experience with the Porsche LED units but with the exception of some Acura models, most LEDs are sub par. LED headlamps from Toyota, Nissan, Tesla, Hyundai, Ford, BMW, Audi etc. ..all quantifiably dead average to poor.

The other benefit that HID currently has over LED is the the components are modular which can be swapped and upgraded. You can take a HID headlight a retrofit another projector to better suits your lighting needs and then you could replace the stock 35w ballast with one which is 40w - 75w if you felt so inclined. LEDs can't do this. In some cases you can modify the driver and extract more power but the output is only marginally increased and you also amplify the thermal issues.

I do a lot of tinkering with headlights, here are some examples of current LED projectors vs HID projectors... projectors are HID unless specified "LED."



Here are some photos showing the potential of HID...

 

I still prefer the HID output & performance compared to LED ...

that SC430 output is amazing... i also bet that LS460 is nicer tho..

 

Thanks Evan for your answers .. aprreciate it ! I think so .. swap to LED model (Facelifted Panamera) is more like unreal project..

 

Here are some "glamour" pics of the 970 with the upgraded headlights I built, thought I would share.

Evan

 

Looks great Evan!

 

That looks amazing. What wheels are those?

 

They are Vorsteiner but I don't know the model.

 

I have read your post. I cannot speak for other brands, but on the Panamera, I have first hand experience and the LED in in fact better, not marginally, but substantially better. PDLS+ does make a huge difference. If you just shine the LED and the HID on a wall 5 to 10 meters away, you can't really tell the difference. However, if you put the Panamera on rollers, and put a mirror in front of the PDLS+ camera and point it at 45 deg up at night with little or no street lamps, to fool the system into thinking that the road is very dark ahead, and now run the car on rollers at 60-80MPH, you will see the car lowering, and LED will point up and increase intensity. I believe anyone who has driven a Porsche with the LED PDLS+ can testify this. The high speed and increase intensity part is what no HID can come close. The speed sensitive function also includes the spoiler deployment (in 3 stages from 60MPH to 130MPH or so), which is clearly explained in the manual.

 

Sounds like the LED PDLS+ setup has some nice features. It would be great if Porsche offered some data on the actual light output levels in the different modes (normal speed high speed, etc). Maybe the IIHS will include it in their headlight testing.

With projector retrofitting, swapping bulbs and ballasts HIDs are easier to swap and manipulate and modify to suite the application. With LEDs, especially modern systems like PDLS+ and other adaptive/dynamic LED headlights, beyond altering some code to make the program "smarter" there isn't much that can be done to improve the output, essentially the LED systems are fixed where HIDs offer more options being modular and less dependent upon sensors and computers for operation.

That being said a system like the PDLS+ LED headlights is as good as it will get aside from some software tweaks. Compared to say my personal HID system where I can pick and choose the projector, bulb, and ballasts for my application I have more choices and I respectfully disagree about the high speed intensity part, that is where HID shine and I would gladly put my personal HID headlight setup against any modern LED system to measure intensity.

Using the Panamera as an example, from the factory the LED might trump HID but you can modify HID where you can't with the LED.

Below are some pics of my current HID setup I strongly believe modern LED headlights would have a hard time producing output like this.

Evan

 

Evan,

I can see the quality of work that you do. You have earned my respect for your awesome attention to details. I particularly love the way you blacked out the shrouds and frosted the acrylic. Pure work of art. Beats the factory finish in every way.

However, I do value functionality too.

I hope I am wrong, but apparently beginning with model year 2017, HID not even a choice anymore even if you get the lowest end base options of the Panamera without PDLS. It will be quite a challenge to even find a 2017 or newer Panamera with HID for you to modify them because only LED's are offered. If
then I question whether Porsche engineers are making a poor choice to move forward with LED exclusively. I do tend to believe that a team of engineers should be able to make a better decision than one engineer alone, at least 99.9% of the time. Once they have built it, the process it get it DOT approved as an assembly is very expensive, time consuming and tedious, because DOT would perform a series of tests to make sure that not only will it be bright enough, but also focused in a way so it will not blind other drivers when using only low beam. If it failed any of DOT tests, they would not be allowed to equip their cars with the new lights.

I agree that retrofitted LED in an HID housing may not be that great, but the factory LED...you really have to try it at night on a dark road/highway to get the experience. After driving my 2014 Panamera with (old 2014) LED PDLS+ for a few months, I am so spoiled that I felt the loaner 2016 Cayenne with HID looked so dim, and the wife's 2015 RX350 HID looked so dim, and my friend's X6 HID looked so dim. I read your article before I bought my 2014 Panamera and fully expected that I was doomed. I was so ready to figure out how to swap them with a pair of HID. After the first night, I realized that LED is not that poor anymore. After I learned how to use PDLS+, I liked LED even more because it shines very bright, but at the same time smart enough to not blind oncoming traffic. I know that you are very passionate about modifying HID's and you may not like what to hear my experience, but I want to be honest with you as a fellow engineer who likes to tweak things too. I would avoid buying another car with HID again if I can financially afford to. Halogen is like postcard, HID is like FAX, and LED is like email attachment. All of them will be around for a while...

 

The most important thing is if you can see well and your lights are not blinding on coming traffic, if those boxes are checked then all is well.

I wish auto manufacturers released performance specs on headlights, it would be so much easier to evaluate the performance and with the importance of seeing where one is going in a motor vehicle at night it is surprising this doesn't exist. Maybe the new testing by IIHS will help create an appreciation for data like this.

The 2016 Cayenne headlights are made by Hella and the projectors in that model are OK at best with a real "wonky" beam pattern with poor light distribution. The X6 headlights are also by Hella, have slightly different projectors but output is similar.

The Lexus RX350 is a nice example of a bi-xenon HID projector, good in stock form but shines with some minor tweaks/mods to the actual projector. If your wife still has the RX350 I would suggest replacing the HID bulbs with some new ones as the bulbs fade over time. A HID bub shines brightest immediately after it's first ignition and slowly deteriorates over time, after 2,000-3,000 hours of use (a few years of moderate use) a HID bulb may only be emitting 50-60% of the light it did once new. So in some cases you can double the output of your HID headlights but simply replacing a tired bulb. For quality HID bulbs I recommend the Osram CBI or the Philips 85122WHV2.

I use the Lexus RX350s projectors frequently on the upgraded Tesla Model S HID headlights I build. Here is there performance with some mods, CBI bulbs, and 45w ballasts. Don't let the tech or Elon's magical aura fool you, the headlights on the Model S (both HID and LED) and Model X suck. Model 3 appears to run a similar system so expect mediocrity there too.

Evan

 

This looks great. I have Xenon HID Adapt lights with chrome inner, iam trying to have these turned into the GTS version with dark grey inners. Any tips/video that I can follow?

 

I own a Model 3 and the headlights are really damn good for OE - especially the high beams. Even the small LED projector fog-lights are really good considering their size. As you're aware they're entirely LED and it's obvious there was some R&D time spent when creating them. I'm OCD about lighting and driving the 3 down around areas with little to no street lighting I feel confident.

 

Best advice is to get a set of GTS headlights. For the price is really not bad and you'll get new lenses, new bulbs, new ballasts, wiring, etc... I believe Suncoast still has them on sale.