my 17' 991.2 carrera (manual) is now broken in at 4,500 miles.

I used to get 280-290 miles to the tank in my last car (991.1 manual)
The new car gets 265-275 and the in car computer confirms the lower mpg in the new car.

So its fair to say that with small throttle input, the new 3.0 twin turbo gets better mileage than the 3.4 NA engine, for example at 75mph in 7th on the highway. I personally spend about 2-4% of my time behind the wheel in that circumstance.

I know in Europe CO2 is a big factor and the new engine is greener.

But in essence we lost some throttle response and more importantly a boat load of delicious character defining engine and exhaust noise in order to get lower gas mileage?

I love my car, but I think the switch to turbos should not have been made and they should have waited a generation to introduce hybrid power units on all 911s.
Then you could get the torque of an electric engine with the sound of a naturally aspirated motor and still hit all the efficiency and environmental goals.?

DRP

 

Hmm, I'm surprised the factory did not call you to get your opinion before they made this decision.

 

The turbocharged lower displacement engine satisfies 2 things:

(1) the current EU and EPA testing protocols use a testing method that allows the car to meet a higher fuel economy standard. The problem is the test protocol doesn't reflect the way people drive their cars. So, if you drive with an egg between your foot and the accelerator pedal and press in such a way as to avoid cracking the egg, you can probably hit the EPA rating. If you drive in a way that involves spinning the turbos, as you've discovered, fuel economy is much poorer.

(2) The 3L engine attracts lower taxes in China, where a lot of the cars are sold. A 3L engine would have poorer performance, hence the need for the turbocharging.

 

Completely agree, DRP. That and the softer ride make this a good car for traveling, but I miss the character in the 991.1. And if it's such a good car for China, they should have produced a China version that could have been sold in the US as a 911T.

ChuckJ

 

I am getting TERRIBLE mpg so far with my broken in 991.2 C2S, but don't care at all! The power/torque is addictive and I just can't bring myself to granny this car. This thing is SO fun and pulls really hard; gobs of torque is available all over the rev range!
Call it blasphemy, but HAIL TO THE TURBOS!! I don't miss the NA motor at all!

 

Maybe, but North American 911 sales were down about 10% in 2016. The population is aging and moving to more comfortable cars and the sports car category is slowing. That they are selling a large number of 911s in China is a good thing for North American buyers. It keeps profits rolling and R & D money flowing to bring us the next best thing.

If you take the approach that Porsche should just cater to North America and should concentrate on 911s, you won't be happy with the cars that come out down the road. The 911 (and Porsche) was saved by the Cayenne, and macaw (and to a lesser extent the Panamera).

China is another example of saving Porsche (or at least the 911).

 

And if, between driving in a spirited fashion, you are light on the gas pedal, I expect you'll do very well on the fuel economy front. I know that if I drive my 2013 535 with a very light foot, I get amazing city fuel economy. Put it in sport mode and sport transmission mode and I lose between 2 and 3 litres/100 km.

 

Ya absolutely; guess I forgot to make that point clear. My current poor mpg is absolutely due to my driving habits

 

Grover:
True the sales were down 10%, but my three salesmen friends in three different dealerships tell me it's because the allocations for 911s were down. Perhaps that's because the allocations for China were going up- or some other reason.

ChuckJ

 

That is what they tell me too, but if you read industry news, there is a trend away from sports cars. Porsche saw this coming more than a decade ago and survived by catering to market segments (and markets) that could keep them profitable. That means Cayenne, Panamera, Macan and who knows what will be next. If 911 sales are going down here because allocations are going to China, that is because that is where the market is growing and where future sales are. We'll still get cars, but they won't be designed with our market in mind (primarily).

And ... for the record, Porsche isn't the only car company catering to China. GM announced that for the first time last year, they sold more cars in China than in the US. If China wasn't such a good market for GM, I doubt it would have recovered after the recession in 2008. It would have gone broke. It wouldn't surprise me to see more features desirable in China making it into NA spec cars (at least built into the architecture). Of course, China doesn't buy trucks and other very large SUVs, something Americans are gaga over until the next spike in oil prices.

 

I understand how turbos kill the exhaust note, but how is it that Mercedes is immune from this? Their AMG turbo engines still sound like they'd murder someone if they could. They sound amazing.

In fairness to Porsche the new 911 does sound good considering. In a parking garage with the echos you can still hear the boxer "oily bits" engine sounds. But inside the car all you hear is a flat generic engine sounf from the symposers and the computer generated overrun pops.

I remember my Gen I car with PSE in a city. The exhaust bouncing off the buildings was absolutely wicked. I felt like a kid in middle school again. Just made you giggle.

I bet the new GT3 991.2 with a manual will carry on that legacy. Naturally aspirated manual 911s. Gotta love em. Long live the king!

 

My 991.1 GTS will do 35 mpg (UK) at 65 mph on the motorway. And yet the trip computer is showing a lifetime average of 16. So it goes. When I spent 24 hours in the .2 it did seem to be more economical even though I was thrashing it.

Other than that I agree with everything that has been said, and this car will be pried from my cold dead hands.

 

First saved a bit by the Boxster. No doubt the SUV's have made them extremely profitable.

 

This royally sucks! One good benefit is the torque curve on the 991.2. Always a trade-off.

 

I know, everyone is caught up in the exhaust noise and the normally aspirated car, but being new to Porsche, I don't have much to compare the 991.2 to. On my journey to own one, I found out a lot.

As I have posted in the past, my first test drive (2016) was in a 2017 C2S with SPASM and PDK and PSE, SC (etc.). I thought the car was a great driver although had more equipment than my budget could stand.

That car sold and the dealer got a used 2015 C2 in, with 8,000 kms on it and few options. I took that car home for a couple of days and returned it saying Porsche just wasn't for me. The car was loud inside (even without the PSE exhaust) had a rough ride that on our roads was jarring. It was priced around $119,000 ($CAD).

A few weeks later while revising the who 911 "thing" I started thinking to myself; how could I have loved the 2017 C2S so much yet driving another Porsche 911 a couple of weeks later I hated the ride and the interior noise? Why didn't I notice that in the C2S?

I went in to speak to the dealer and involved the service department. It turns out the 991.2 has a lot more going for it than a turbocharged engine. The suspension was reworked for 2017 along with different bushings and dampers and PASM was made standard. In addition, the PSE system was different, routing less noise into the cabin.

They didn't have a 2017 for me to drive (the one car - a black C4S was a sold unit) so I was left to think about whether the 991.2 was the answer to my question: Can the 911 be a daily driver for me?

A few weeks later I noticed the black C4S was not sold and I contacted the dealer. He arranged another test drive and I tool this new car on some of the rougher roads where I live. Huge difference in the ride and whether PSE was on or off, the sound inside the cabin was much more mute compared to the 2015 991.1 I had tested.

So what I have discovered (improved fuel economy or not) is the following:

1. The base 991.2 has more than enough power for the average driver. More is always better, but if you were happy with a 991.1 C2S, you have a quicker car in the base 991.2. So, thank you Porsche, you saved me $18,000 (CAD) on my new car;

2. The 991.2 has such an improved ride that I can use this car as a daily driver. Can't say that about the 991.1. Now, perhaps a 991.1 with the optional PASM would have narrowed the gap, but Porsche made efforts with the .2 to make it a better daily driver;

3. PSE. The car is just quieter in the cabin as compared to the NA 991.1 engine. Most people will see that as a negative, I don't. I optioned my car with PSE, so I have the option to have it louder if I want and quieter most of the time as I prefer.

4. Fuel economy - if you drive the car lightly I'm betting you can meet the EPA rating. The bonus is (like with my 2013 BMW 535), when you step on it, you have all this beautiful torque and power on tap.