a 991.2 turbo S with champion intercoolers
ipd plenum, y pipe
exhaust
and a stage 3 GIAC tune

AND

done this with same comparison using Sam's goods and Cobbs tunes

what kind of power should this car make to the wheels and what are we thinking 1/4 times and trap speeds would be

 

Go with Sam - best customer support in the world - 24/7 attention and amazing tuning - hands down the best and great prices

Champion is all about the name - kind of like the experience you get at the dealer - they expect you to pay more just because it says Porsche on it and give you less - just my own opinion

I think with the basic mods you have listed the 1/4 mile and power should be the same with either path but the difference would be with Sam you get the review of data logs on your car as you are driving it on the road and tweaks to fine tune it over time and as the seasons change if needed while the other choice is a one size fits all solution

 

Methinks you've never done business with Tom.

I love Sam but I think there's way too many Cobb homers sometimes ..

I've done business with both and would recommend both. I do like the AP features though.

 

Trust me I have no affinity to Cobb

Realize that all tuning through the stock ecu is using the stock ecu maps and changing values in those maps

Each tuning option allows the tuner to access the maps - make performance adjustments and reflash the stock chip

GIAC - COBB - Softronic who ever you like

I am simply speaking about my experience with Sam and the customer service he provides. I am a very picky guy and I have very high expectations and I am hard to please. Trust me if he is capable to meet and exceed all of my expectations and then go beyond them he is providing the best level of customer service.

At the end of the day - personally I am more drawn to Cobb because it also acts as a data logger and I like to data log my car and see what is going on and it also has gauges which are nice. But the main functions of any tune are to adjust and modify the stock ecu. Thus every tuning method will get you to the same place power wise it is just a matter of which method and tuner you are more comfortable with.

I would suggest politely if there are many Cobb "homers" what ever that means . . . maybe that means that Cobb is a good Porsche tuning product. I think most of the Porsche owners like myself are educated (I have a PHD) and successful mature individuals who know the difference between something they like and something they don't like


I noticed for example on these forums that some members went through 4 or 5 different exhaust systems before they found one that they like.


When is the last time you saw a used Cobb AP for sale in the Porsche market other than someone who was trading in or up their car?

 

I doubt many people have owned both sets of hardware and software, so i doubt there would be any empirical data comparing the two. But with either setup, you'll be making so much power, i doubt you will really squeeze for each remaining individual horsepower. Based on my conversation with a few board members with experience in modifying their 991 Turbo, here's what i've gathered... Cobb offers is flexibility and tuning options and could make more power than the GIAC, but where the GIAC may excel is you can't screw up with it, it's relatively conservative, set it and forget it which is really nice. On the hardware side, either has been proven to perform, so can't go wrong either way.

 

Spot on my friend. Although there seems to be very few who can reliably extract everything out of the setup with the Cobb - ES Motors (Emre) is the really the only choice for a custom Cobb tune. The ES team is the top custom Porsche DI tuner in the world.

Reliability is a fantastic attribute of the GIAC/Champion setup (I mean, which other tuner provides an umbrella warranty on your modified car?!?) but....it a'int no slouch either. I've been undefeated over many years at SoCal airstrip events against the competition with their stage whatever and built this and that 997.2, 991.1 and 991.2. I've seen dozens of these car come and go.

My 991 has been 100% perfect. Challenging only the absolute fastest cars at the events. And of course any DI Turbo Porsche that wants a shot at me. And I'n still the reigning Shift Sector California Exotic Champion. California is a pretty competitive market. We know who is here....and for years the GIAC/Champion setup has never let me down.

I'm transitioning a bit...my 991 is turning into a track car. May never see another airstrip again. The track is much more brutal environment for an upgraded turbo/meth 991 but this is exactly where all the GIAC/Champion testing comes from - not a quarter or half mile, but a 30 minute sustained WOT circuit run.

 

hmmm, I'm not really sure how to take this one lol. Just to clarify, we carry the same name as our dealership (Champion Porsche) but we operate as a completely separate entity, with our own 20,000 engineering and installation facility, our own team of technicians, and our own engineering staff. We've been developing and selling (all in house) our own line of Porsche performance products for almost 20 years. That includes our forged wheel line, our Werks1 carbon fiber products, turbo charger upgrades, intercooler kits, the list goes on and on. We've also been the pioneers in many platforms over the last several years. We were the first to put a DFI Porsche in the 9's in the 1/4 mile, the first to disassemble and modify the PDK transmission in 2010, the first to offer OBDII flashing for the 991.1 platform, the first to offer tuning of any kind for the 991.2 platform (over a year before any of our competitors), and again the list goes on.


Are our prices generally higher than most, absolutely yes. But the reason for that is because you get the highest quality parts engineered all in house, but you also get our guarantee, which I'm fairly comfortable saying no one else offers. I have nothing against Cobb whatsoever, and Sam and I have become good friends, but it's just unfair to say that we charge more "just because..."



Sorry...didn't mean to rant. I just take a lot of pride in what we do and I think that sometimes peoples misunderstand our relationship with our dealership.



Thanks shifter! I appreciate the kind words

 

I have no issues with Champion. They seem to produce high-quality products, for sure. But I went with Sam and couldn't be happier. My guess is that I've had more highly-modified cars over the years than most people in here, and a LOT of experience with different tuners across many platforms. Sam is definitely as good it gets.

That said, if I wasn't a By Design guy, Champion would be my next choice.

 

No doubt that Sam has a great REP on here and has ALWAYS been a gentleman and answered all my questions even as ive never done business with him directly yet.

While not a fan of Champion Porsche, maybe just personality differences, dealing with champion motorsport and Tom specifically has ALWAYS gone as expected and without fail. And Tom has always made me feel value and worked with me on pricing.

I plan on doing a Europipe stage 2 exhaust
ipd plenum and y pipe
and undecided about by design, champion or AWE intercoolers
and undecided about GIAC Cobb or say an outfit locally like Hydra that can dyno a tune special to the car directly while on the dyno.

not sure how much hp and tq to the wheels on 93 I can grab doing these options

so variables are if there are differences and what they are in the intercoolers, as I won't be tracking the car anyhow but live in hot south florida
and the tune will a stock file be just fine or would I want a tweaked tune to my car

im thinking if I asked tom he would send files back and fourth to Giac and if I asked sam he would do same with Cobb

 

Sam is something else - try reaching any other tuner at 11pm

When you deal with him you are dealing with a whole team of experts and he will keep going back and forth on your tune until it is perfect

One thing I like about his work - being a guy myself who can tune cars professionally and who is certified by AEM for tuning - is that he starts off on the very very weak end and slowly builds it up bit by bit - the best way to go in my opinion

Many of the Porsche tuners will tell you that one map fits all but that is because they lack the kind of tool that Cobb offers for easily datalogging the car and transferring the information to the tuner and the maps from the tuner back to you and into your car

Being that a little power seems to in many cases get you in the mood for more power and more modifications Cobb is a good option as you can easily upgrade your map for new mods in 5 mins

In my case I started tuning with Sam and over the course of a few revisions went from mild to very aggressive and save on my MS109 tune and blew through my stock clutch in the process

Now I am doing a upgraded clutch and bigger turbos

Sam even located and found a master Porsche tech to install my clutch at a crazy good price - talk about customer support

In my life I have never seen anyone who is more dedicated to his customers and customer satisfaction

I find it hard to imagine replacing Sam with some off the shelf map developed by individuals I can't even speak to

I will be honest and say that IF I did not have Sam as a resource I would have kept my Turbo stock and never gone down the road of modifying it as there is no one in my area who has any experience working on these cars

Knowing that I have Sam available by text, phone or email nearly 24/7 to discuss any aspect of my build and tune is what makes me confident in going down this road

PS - I really had a positive experience with Stef at Europipe as well - if you want an exhaust with cats that is about as good as you can get in my opinion if you are not trying to put huge turbos on your car - I love the sound and the quality is better than anything else on my Porsche

 

agreed on Stef! looking forward to his stage 2

im on the edge of just doing a tune and exhaust. and seeing how I like that and then maybe doing
the Ipd set up , intercoolers, and stage3 another time down the road. to appreciate the increments if they are indeed to be had....and not so sure where the sweet spot on these set ups are
just a tune and exhaust, ipd tune and exhaust or to do the intercoolers which is a large expense like the exhaust if the intercoolers are only going to help a little say 20hp as im not tracking my car but I DO live in S Fla .... if thats going to be a LARGE factor in keeping my car keeping peak hp/tq when im driving around town...

 

Do the intercoolers. Especially in that heat. Cooler more dense charge makes for more power. Intercoolers are a must. The AMS are the best.

 

ByDesign or Champ, but i think i couple people here recommend to stay far away from AWE intercoolers

 

I do not know anything about AWE intercoolers - AMS intercoolers are the best you can buy. intercoolers are very important on these cars. Especially for those in hot climates with AMS intercoolers my AIT temps are rarely 10 degrees above ambient at most and when running fast the AIT temps actually start to go down as you pick up speed. Compare that to the stock ones which give you heat like a blow drier

 

Hi,

You can't go wrong with either, By Design or Champion Motorsports products or customer service. Shop wise, Champion Motorsports is your one stop shop, Tom is no-nonsense guy that is always open to help and guide you...as is Sam with his 24/7 customer service.

What are you talking about, have you ever talked or dealt with Tom??? Sorry, but your statement is full of ****...my father always taught me if you don't have anything good to say or don't have the knowledge, don't say it!

Hi Adam,

How are you buddy...have to say both Mitch and Sam have fine tuned my beast and the numbers and kills are there to prove it, not saying that Emre is not a good tuner, but Mitch/Sam are also top notch...actually at the last TRUE 1/2 mile event in Florida that we were both there, meaning Cobb (Mitch/Sam) tune vs Cobb (Emre-71mm snails), 175.5 vs 172 or 173 mph. Plus if I am not mistaken the TRUE 1/2 mile record in the US is owned by a Cobb car tuned by Mitch/Sam, there is bunch of other details, but you know were I am getting at. Good teams on both ends.

Take care,

Manuel