First 991 Drive (Manifold)
 

I drove the 991 this morning. People were lined up waiting, so it was only about 15 minutes, but enough to form a meaningful first impression.

To cut to the chase, my verdict is that I was underwhelmed. :(

As I said in another thread, I think the appearance is fine. Looks similar to the 997, though sleeker. But that sleekness is a warning that we may have moved in the direction of a GT car.

Next, the interior is nice, and more upscale than 997. But again, here 'upscale' means moving in the direction of luxury rather than sportiness. I don't actually care much about interiors, but it does send a message regarding what the car's about. And I also don't like how high the center console is - feels confining.

Now the drive is where I expected to be impressed, resulting in all of the above being ignored. But no, here again I think we've moved towards a GT car. Even with the limits of my test drive, I could tell that it will deliver performance, but I do think that some of the distinct dynamics of the 997 and previous generations have been smoothed away. As one might expect, the longer wheelbase does result in a more comfortable ride but the car also feels less nimble. And I do also think the steering feel has been diminished a bit; it's still sharp and there's still a good amount of feedback, but some of the mid to high frequency vibration seems to have gone away.

To put it another way, the 991 appears to be 60% 997, 15% Panamera, 15% Cayman, and 10% new stuff. Whether that combo is better than 100% 997 is something for each person to decide.

I plan to drive it again later this week when it's less crowded, but so far my feeling is that I'm better off hanging on to my 997 (and I think the Cayman R is also considerably more thrilling than the 991 as a sports car). When it comes time to replace my current 997, a 997 GT3 may be the way to go.

Sorry guys, I wanted to praise the 991, but my heart's just not in it.

I very much value your opinion as I know from your previous posts that there is no way you would be biased.

What you said: "As one might expect, the longer wheelbase does result in a more comfortable ride but the car also feels less nimble. And I do also think the steering feel has been diminished a bit; it's still sharp and there's still a good amount of feedback, but some of the mid to high frequency vibration seems to have gone away"

JUST WHAT I FEARED.

But at least it retains the low frequency feedback on the steering :). Maybe I should know this but what are low, mid, and high frequencies when it comes to steering?

Nice write-up Manifold.

I too saw the car yesterday and was somewhat underwhelmed. I agree with you, the high center console is very odd - kind of mini-van like. I also think the front end lacks aggression....especially compared to my GT3 front. :)

Oh, and where's the engine? Every car-guy likes to show off his engine and all you get with a 991 is a little rear compartment with two fans and a bunch of plastic panels. Pretty lame if you ask me!

But all in all, the 991 has a good "presence" as I mentioned in another thread...the longer wheel base makes the car look a little less "go-kart" and more serious. But frankly, I kind of like the go-kart racer look which makes me value my 997S! :)

I was referring to the frequencies of the vibrations that come through the steering wheel which give a sense of what the road surface is like and the grip of the tires (ie, informative vibrations, not vibrations due to problems with the car or steering system). Basically, the same as the feedback you mentioned.

MANIFOLD...a big thank you to you. You summed up allot of my thoughts.


I just arrived home from my test drive and all I could think of was how do say it was kinda "Meh".

Nice interior, nice ride in normal settings, more luxurious but far ahead of a 997.2?...not in my test drive and although it was short one I was on the pedal as much as I could.


I was disappointed in the low end torque as someone else has mentioned, I think the shifter for the manual will be in a poor position. However the sound, even without PSE is truly outstanding. The steering feel was good and not really an issue. I didn't find it numb as some have commented.

Now I will say that the cars they had did not have PDCC on any of them. Which was really what I was interested in.

I was with several PCA members with various vehicles and no one was really overwhelmed. Again a very nice car and certainly a 911 but its just a different variant IMO. Not necessarily a better variant.

I may write more later but I would say you cant go wrong with a 991 if you want one but there is no way I would rush out to trade a 997.2 for one at this time.

There is no such a thing as an unbiased opinion. I can bet my house on it that some one who has a 991 on order will only have a favorable opinion about it, whereas some one who has a 2012 GTS will inevitably take 2-3 years or until he is in the market for a new car, to think more positively about a 991.

i think the problem is that u cannot have it all.
putting purism and comfort together is almost impossible. :)

Exactly.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You and manifold have summed up all my thoughts exactly. Funny how so many of us on 6speed are all on the same wavelength.

I really like the exterior, the interior, and the exhaust. But the lower end torque and steering really is just underwhelming. It lacks that kick in the pants when I gunned it on sport plus. As someone has mentioned before, it may be objectively faster, but it doesn't feel faster than a gts or 997.2 carrera s.

Will I still buy it? Yes. But not at full MSRP.

This is a very good point. When I test drove a 997.2 "S" the first time with PDK I was pushed back in my seat and it was like..."holy smoke...what a rush".

Todays test drive was over the same road and I didn't feel the same rush. Now this car only had 53 miles on it and the 997.2 had quite few more. That maybe a factor.

I would certainly own a 991 in the future if I am comfortable with the manual set-up for shifting and heel toeing. ( I thought there was enough room in the model I tested today for heel toeing.) Probable to replace my boxster as a DD. If not I will wait for the next cayman model as another choice.

Ok so a few things from owning a Cayenne. The console and computer system is welcomed to be in higher state as my shin leans into the radio now and it bothers me after a while. I am not sure I will love the higher shifter but assuming I might get use to it - the Carerra GT and R8 are somewhat similar and comfortable.

I would be the 1st to say that even when the C2S997 was out I did not love it like I loved Turbo, T4S, and C4S wide body. As per the interior finish definitely a step up. I welcome a more comfortable ride for the downtown streets, its punishing at times and I can barely use sports suspension here, the roads are terrible. I have a feeling that as much as I will miss the pure connected feel of the 997, a bit more comfort would be nice for a DD (I mean every day) is something I would appreciate. Now the only reason I would not buy a 991 is if they didn't come out with a Targa variant or something of the sort. I have really become addicted to the glass roof above my head and really don't know if I could ever go back to coup or cab format.

As other members have said I feel as if Porsche is going to draw a line in the sand. You want a hardcore variant buy a GT you want a DD or such then these are the options. While there are few of on the board complaining I hear that dealer allocations are quickly vanishing and there is no discounts to be had, wait in line :). It will grow on all of us and I am amazed they were even able to up the ante on the 997. Look at what BMW did the the 6er, they destroyed its driving focus, wrecked the exterior, and obliterated its cult following.

For the past hour, I have been trying to think of a way to accurately describe the new steering system. The best analogy I have come up so far is that the feedback on the steering system on pre-991 cars is similar to the feedback a runner would get when running bare foot or using bare foot shoes. You can feel every nook and cranny on the street, and you know exactly what you are driving over. It is very communicative and direct.

The steering on the 991 is like a runner who wears shoes. There is still feedback, but you just don't feel every crack or bump on the street. Some of the information is filtered out (I cannot deny that). But I can see that some people will be able to drive the car much faster without the steering wheel jittering in their hands and may prefer the new system.

Different strokes for different folks.

It isn't that the 991 steering system isn't precise. That is not the case at all because I can point the noise of the car very very accurately, precisely, and quickly. The steering isn't mushy or extremely light. I just STRONGLY prefer the hydraulic steering system. But hey, I want the 991. So I'll just suck it up.

I've noticed that we tend to think alike about cars, so I guess I shouldn't surprised that your impression of the 991 was similar.

I agree that the low end torque is lacking. That could be even more of an issue with manual compared to PDK, and I also worry that the shifter position will be too high, plus I'm not keen on having 7 gears with manual (6 is plenty, and even 5 would be OK).

The sound actually didn't wow me as much as other people. It does sound more muscular than the 997, but my C63 is still much superior in that department, plus I've come to really like the sound of the 997, especially at higher revs.

The one I drove didn't have PDCC, and I'll try that on the next test drive (their other car has it). I'm hoping that my second test drive will impress me more than the first, but I still feel that Porsche may have gone too far in the direction of a GT car, regardless of what the objective numbers are. If objective numbers are the goal, the Nissan GT-R is out there, and costs much less.

Personally, I want a 911 to 'dance' in a way that gives abundant feedback, to be a little scary in the sense of demanding some driving skill if you want to push it, and yet very capable and rewarding when you give the car what it asks. In other words, a car that seeks a true partnership with the driver, rather than being somewhat aloof. After driving the 991 yesterday, I took my 997 for a long spirited drive and thought "ah, now this is a what a 911 is supposed to feel like."

I think his point was that my comments prior to the test drive showed that I anticipated liking the car, but I was underwhelmed after driving it. Even though I got a 997 last year, I was hoping that the 991 would be my dream car - everything I like about the 997, but now even better, and yet still reasonably priced. It just didn't happen.