I'd drive a GT500 in a heartbeat. What a great car.

 

+1..

 

Sorry, can't be great according to the 991 critics (from the Forbes article):

For instance, Ford says it uses electric power assisted steering instead of engine-driven hydraulic pumps that use up a lot of power. “These changes also enable better engine performance because more of the power output is directed to the wheels,”

 

I don't think anyone would expect from a Ford Mustang what they expect from a 911.

I +1 on owning a Mustang too. Ford has earned a lot of respect from me lately with their products (specifically mustangs).

 

HC, I'm not trying to compare the two. My remark was a tongue-in-cheek comment on the sentiment that has been popular on this forum which equates Porsche's adoption of electric power steering with the coming of the Apocalypse.

 

Let me say this as well, I don't know what Speed21 did in the past, but I completely agree with his last few posts. It's now like no one can say anything negative about the GT-R or their is some type of Jasper alert to swoop in and set them straight.

What makes it ok for GT-R boys to come into a Porsche Forum and call everyone badge snobs and hang it over anyone's head who says they like a Porsche because of it's image. Image is inclusive of much more than what people think of you when they see you in said car. Image is the thing that brought you to the dealership in the first place and every car has an image (some just better than others). Image is about what a car company inspires in the person that buys the car. Image is the manufacturer that builds a car that in many ways represents the way the person that bought it feels about themselves.

The image of Porsche to me is not being scared to be different. To take an unconventional means and beat you over the head with it on the racing track for decades on end. To do what everyone told you you can't do, better than they've ever done it. And doing it naturally (which is why the 991 is in question). So call me what you want, but I like that image.

That's not a bad thing, it's a good thing. And just because Nissan is short on it doesn't mean everyone here needs to tuck their tails between their legs and act like their their walking on egg shells. Or justify why they didn't buy a cheaper Nissan.

I welcome PORSCHE BADGE SNOBS ON A PORSCHE FORUM. Where else should they post? It's like you have to be scared now to post anything regarding a GT-R that isn't heaps of praise or you get branded.

If you don't like Porsche badge snobs, here's an idea, post somewhere else. There could be some insecurity (little man's syndrome) lurking in all of the pointing out of insecurities. The really secure man doesn't have to point out to everyone their insecurities, and defend every person who says something about their beloved vehicle.

The really secure man still does not really care what other people think. And certainly won't follow them around trying to convince them to think something else.

Chew on that.

 

understood

 

Heavy I agree 100%!!!
As has been evident in my previous posts.

Many on this forum agree with you but I've found the disposition of most Porsche owners to be one of pleasant, educated, non-confrontational nature, hence the silence around the elephant in the room...
I believe for someone to be banned for sticking up for something he believes in is... well... I'll leave that one alone because it's likely to get me banned as well...

This thread has gone waaaaaay beyond discussing cars and turned into defending why we have Porsche's... if anything a mod should've stepped in to tone down the rhetoric not add fuell to the fire...

Sid.

edit, after consideration I have edited my original post and decided that everyone here can see for themselves what's going on here thus I will refrain from compounding matters...

 

Right on Sid!

 

A lot of valid points here as well, but I think it's worth making a distinction between the kind of image you describe (based on appreciation of performance, design philosophy, heritage, etc.) versus image purely as social status ("my notoriously expensive car proves that I'm richer than you, and thus a more worthwhile person than you overall"). It's entirely possible to care for one kind of image but not the other.

IMO, whether buying a car for the latter kind of image implies 'insecurity' is a difficult question. Maybe it would be fair to say that we all give at least a little bit of importance to status display, at least unconsciously, but it could be called insecurity if it goes too far?

Also, since the thread is GT-R versus 991, I think we should all be free to point out positives and negatives of both cars, with the understanding that opinions are likely to be challenged and debated.

 

Regarding image and status display, consider five scenarios:

A. A wealthy guy wears a Rolex because he loves the watch, and he's aware that it's considered a very ordinary watch in his circles which no one will pay much attention to.

B. An affluent guy wears a Rolex because he thinks it fits his social status and he wants to display that status.

C. A guy who stretches to afford a Rolex wears one to tell his peers that he's 'made it' in life.

D. A guy who can easily afford a real Rolex wears a good fake Rolex because he appreciates the aesthetic design but doesn't want to pay a lot for it.

E. A guy who can't afford a real Rolex wears a fake one to give the impression that he can afford a real one.

Are any of these guys insecure? I'd say definitely E, maybe C somewhat, B only a little if at all, and not the others.

 

I agree completely about the distinctions, however what to do about the distinctions is where we differ. For me, a Porsche forum is where the elitist Porsche guy belongs and should have some liberty as such. If a guy bleeds Porsche and respects nothing else so what, do like Porsche favortism, then YOU (not you specifically). should be the one leaving.

The outsiders try to alienate the hardcore Porsche fans with all of these tags and no one stands up for them. I may not agree with everything they say but i respect that this forum was designated for those types.

There is no respect due to the GTR here. If a guy wants to bash Corvette, then let him do so, don't like the viper so be it. I'm not saying everyone has to agree, but attacking people's character and self image because they don't care about your brand is just as lame.

Porsche!!!!!!!!!!!! Forum!!!!!!!

 

That's not why he was banned. Sticking up for any car (Porsche, Nissan, etc.) is not a problem whatsoever.

I'm sorry that this fact is lost on you.

 

A fundamental question is whether Porsches can be criticized in a Porsche forum. I think we should be able to do that, since I prefer honest evaluation including both pros and cons, rather than limiting the forums to only celebrating the cars. That doesn't mean the cars can't be celebrated, I just wouldn't limit it to that.

And personally, I could never see myself being wedded to a single brand. Every brand is capable of messing up, and many brands are capable of excellence. I prefer to keep my options open and choose the best product I can, regardless of the brand.

 

Just so we're clear, 6speed is not a dedicated Porsche forum. That said, if you don't want GT-Rs discussed in a Porsche "section" (of this forum), then don't create topics about them in Porsche "sections". It would be same if a topic about Porsches was created in the GT-R section and Porsche guys came in to debate some of the points (which has happened many times before). People are going to defend cars that they like. You can't get around that.

As for your rally cry for Porsche snobbery, even though you obviously hate the GT-R, what's apparent to me is that a badge snob is definitely something you are not.

As far as insecurity goes, if banning someone who always seems to be a consistent source of conflict on this forum, even with his fellow Porsche owners, makes me insecure, I'm completely secure enough with myself to be comfortable wearing that label.