So, given all of that criteria that you decided was relevant to a review about the base Carrera S, is there an AWD Porsche 911 Turbo PDK street car winning championships?

(Or any of that other stuff you mentioned...)

I'd still like to hear the relevance to this review. (Shall I stop waiting, because it's completely irrelevant?)

 

The test isn't between a GT-R and AWD Turbo PDK Porsche now is it? Keep trying to deflect.

The things that make the GT-R fast, also make it a liability in terms on longevity. That much can't be denied.

If someone is cross shopping between these two vehicles which are in the same price range (which is entirely possible), they might just be interested in the fact that the GT-R cannot drive hard for full sessions without needing a breather (so it cannot maintain that false 3s gap for the hole session).

It's still relevant even if the GT-R does not have the advantage, sorry to have to break that news to you.

This particular 991 (the S) will be racing before long in Continental tire series to replace the 997's. And in PCA, NASA, POC, etc. So with regards to racing, the 991 would be a better choice at this point as the GT-R had not proven to be worth much as a true race car. Racing was not brought up by me, I only responded to it.

 

Dude - I brought up AWD w/PDK, because isn't that the only comparison worthy? Or you still feel GT-R vs 991 C2S is actually not baseless?

Anybody else agree?

I made the assumption that you were at least in the same ball park as the rest of the world..., seems as though I was mistaken - I'll let you continue to compare the 991S to the GT-R.

Go ahead - you have the floor.

 

Interesting thread. A lot of comparison of apples and oranges. No one is going t be convinced over a key board. Too much passion on both sides. Reminds me of the old Porsche/Supra days.

I'm surprised no one has organized a shootout to establish the bragging rights .... if ther really is any.

 

There was a shootout, it's on video in post #1. That's what started all of this nonsense!

 

I guess I'm showing my age. I don't mean some staged video with two prepped cars. I'm referring to a shootout where members of 6speed get together and run their cars. The ones we use to do had dyno, 1/4 mile and circle track.

In our shootouts we were covered by ceratin magazines and I believe a tire manufacturer supplied tires.

 

Except it wasn't a fair fight. They brought a 991 with a manual transmission to take on a fast shifting "automatic."

 

Grab a stopwatch and notice that Tiff has already lost 1.1 seconds to the GT-R with that miss-shift in the first turn by the time he gets to the end of the red/white gators on the right after the hairpin. That's only 12 seconds into the lap!!!! That's not the GT-R that did that, it's Tiff.

Also notice that when the 991 crosses the finish line, the stopwatch says 1:22.08 but they round up to 1:22.8 (that's a HUGE discrepancy!) while the GT-R crosses the line it says 1:20.02 and it's only off by 8 hundredths. How does that happen?

It really not that hard to sync multiple videos. You can do it on your home computer far more accurately than that.

So you see, reducing the time Tiff lost bumbling around in the first turn (1 sec), and accurately timing the lap (let's say 1:22.1) and the 991 is uncomfortably close (1:21.1) to the GT-R, notwithstanding the tire difference. And notwithstanding Tiff's shifting skills as displayed in this video, the 991 PDK would have been really close!!!

If the truth came out though, it might ruffle some feathers. I've always said that EVO magazine are GT-R homers and this only proves my assertion from their drifting a while back.

That being said though, VERY impressive from the 991. Once you sort through all of the magazine BS.......

 

Don't worry, your secret is safe here on 6speed.

Thanks for staying on topic.

 

Great analysis Heavychevy!

ChuckJ

 

This comparison means very little to me, IMO a fair comparison will be the 2012 GT-R Black Edition vs the yet to arrive 991 Turbo S. Can't wait to see that since they both are the flagships of both brands.

 

Why not the 2012 Turbo S? Seems like a better comparision than a yet to be released car. The Turbo S seems to hold its own against the GTR.

The 991 Turbo S will have to fend against the new GTR (whatever that is).

 

The 991 is better suited to the GT-R Black edition comparison because it will be the new 911 for the next several years. Plus no matter what Nissan makes, I guarantee you that the Porsche 991 Turbo S will cost $100k more than what they come out with. So you know it will have to be faster (and better) than the GT-R of that time. Nothing against 997 Turbo S but its time for it to move aside for its better replacement.

 

IMO, the comparison is too simple to reliably draw conclusions. A more robust test would use multiple pro drivers, on multiple tracks, with each driver given multiple runs. A best time, or some sort of average, from all that data would be more meaningful.

But again, both cars are comparably fast, so for a non-racing situation I don't think it makes sense to base the choice between them on which one is faster. That's certainly not how I would choose.

 

Is there a performance increase between the 2012 Black Edition and the 2012 Premium edition?

Are you sure it isn't just a different wheels, and a red-trimmed interior?

The 2013 Black Edition at least comes with a CF wing (which doesn't offer much weight reduction over the 2013 premium).

But why not the 2013 GT-R with 545HP and LC5, instead of the 2012 530HP w/LC4?