C2S vs C4S
 

I was very close to pulling the trigger on a C2S when I really started to notice the C4S. I love the rear light assembly look. Any other performance or other info anyone has that would help me make a decision between the two?

Thanks

well the 4S has 4WD. I sat in both 4S and S and the 4S felt like it was stuck to the ground when you turn. The S is pretty good 2.

I actually just read a pretty informative thread by someone who is considering the same issue. A lot of people feel that the C2s is more nimble. I like the idea of 4 wheel drive. I had a panamera 4s and I loved it.

The C4S is slightly heavier and slower (if a couple of a hundredths of a second really matter to you) :D

I used to have a C4S and it literally felt like it was on rails and great for all weather driving. My C2S is hardly a boat and you really can't go wrong with any iteration of a 991...

If one lives in a rain or snow region the 4S is a must have vehicle . There is no doubt that it will outhandle being planted with all 4 wheels digging in . However cornering a 4S might on paper be somewhat close in time yet in terms of driver fun the 2S not only feels more natural but is the choice made by porsche in both the Gt2 and Gt3 cars for track use.

In my opinion if one must have AWD it ought to be a Turbo. The combination of the AWD mated to the monster torque is driving benchmark . Add to that the PDK which maintains boost on upshifts it's as perfect a car as one can get with the AWD . anything else simply can not compete on this config .

That's my opinion. I have driven both . I even owned a 997S and a Turbo simultaneously . I still have my Turbo and love it .. but if i were buying a 991 NA car an 2S would be my first choice over the 4S .

4S is more usable imo + it looks better. 2S is easier to drift.

Don't forget to mention the steering in the 4S is better than in the 2S because of the difference in weightbalance and the extra driveshafts.
(can't help mentioning this video over and over again, sorry for that ;) )

Personally I like the 4S most, but I might be a little biased ;)

Suzy991

This past winter on the team speed forum there was a ice racing test in Sweden . I believe there was little or almost no difference between the 4S and 2S.

The 4S is great if you have to deal with a lot of heavy weather. Since you live in Atlanta, you could go both ways. 4S-better traction 2S-more nimble. If you get the 4S because you like the light package, you're paying a lot ($6K) for it. 4S is approx. 1.5 inchs wider with 305's in the rear.

Try and do back to back extended test drives if you can, the driving dynamics are subtle but noticeable. The hardest part about this is finding one w/ the same suspension options (SPASM, PDCC, etc.). For the weather in ATL, you by no means "need" a C4S, even in the wet. If you plan on tracking, I'd go C2S without hesitation.

And then get beaten by a 25 yr old girl in a C4S ;) LOL
Just kidding....

I just don't get the point why a C2S should be better on a track than a C4S. I even think it's the other way around in case of the 911, at least for a non-professional racing driver. But that's just my opinion of course.
I do, on the other hand, admitt that a C2S can be a lttle bit more fun on a track, because it is a tiny bit more agile.

I do agree that driving both cars back to back is the best way to find out what suits one best, I did the same, allthough I drove the C4S for a whole day after driving the C2S for about 45 minutes. At the end it's all a matter of personal taste. I do admitt that the looks of the C4S were a part in my decision too.

Suzy991

Thanks for all the great responses. I am leaning C4s because I like the look of it. I will not be tracking. My Goodness after spending 130k on my dream car, the very thought of even a door ding makes me cringe. I am sure I will be putting it through it's paces but, no unnecessary danger!

By the way Suzy have you ever seen the movie "Something about Mary"? You might be most guy's dream date in here. LOL

They beauty in C2 is that it is a little bit purer for hardcore drivers.

The beauty in C4 is that it is somewhat easier to control in the grey area of grip/no grip. Don't know how Porsche calibrated the C4 4wd, but in principal you can get a 4wd out of big oversteer with the throttle like you can with a fwd.
An instructor once janked my handbrake on a fwd car on a wet ever so slightly off camber epoxy track, resulting in more than 90° oversteer, and amazingly just mashing the throttle resulted in enough decrease in front axle grip to bring it back in line, with a healthy dose of luck no doubt, but nevertheless. I thought that was physically impossible, but it wasn't.
Impossible with a rwd though.

Makes me second guess my choice for a C2 now I come to think of it, maybe next time I should get a C4 :-)

Hilarious! I did see that movie... Great movie BTW. But I have to disappoint everyone here... I'm not available and even if I was, I would not really be available ;)

Suzy991

If feeling loose in the back end means more nimble to you. I've driven both on the track. You can definitely feel the difference. The C2S is a little bit more fun to drive as you will be drifting a little bit on the turns. The C4S will just grip and turn. So you will hear people say, the C4S feels like it's on rails and planted. The C2S oversteers more, more nimble? For the non professional driver, the C4S feels a lot more natural, gives you more confidence to go faster.

Just what I need.... More confidence to go faster. LOL! Thanks

I have a C2, but after driving the C4S on the mini track during the Porsche World Road Show I was very impressed with the cornering capability. Porsche did make the 918 4 wheel drive and I hear it did the ring in under 7 minutes.

ChuckJ

LOL, fair enough, I should have clarified w/ IMHO, as I'm not comparing at which car is faster at the track, just that I prefer the RWD feel on the track. :) I'm stilling getting acclimated to not having a 6MT on the track, even though I know objectively I'm far better w/o having to shift myself. That said, as it's become obvious I'm way too late to be able to get a 991 GT3 anytime soon, I'm prolly gonna get a 991TT, so AWD on the track here I come!

If the track was damp the advantage wold go to the 4S and comparing a base car to an "S" has a power disadvantage . It really has to be apples to apples (S to 4S or c2 to c4) . Simple logic points to two cars with the same engine where the AWD is heavier . Even though times can be close the crip steering of the 2S is lacking in any AWD car (on dry surface) .

Gt3, Gt3Rs , RSR ,Gt2 , Gt2 RS , Carrera Gt -- all lack AWD .

Try the C4S or maybe the new Turbo and you will find out that Porsche has got it almost perfect this time. Way better than in the 997. The steering in the C4S is almost as crisp as it is in a C2S. The only difference there is, is that there is a little bit of understeer when you enter a corner too fast in a C4S. On the other hand you gets loads more grip and a less nervous front end, which makes that you can steer the car more precise IMO. Second to that is the fact that the steering feel is a bit better than in the C2S. The electromechanical powersteering gives more feedback, probably because of the extra driveshafts and the better weight distribution.
The benefit of the AWD is more than only in snow or rain. And the extra weight isn't that much in the 991. Only 40-50kg and it sits low in the car. The better grip compensates that.

In the end it's the personal preference which lets one decide what to find better of course.

Suzy991

++++1

Suzy, this time I don't completely agree with you. Allthough it might only be a semantics thing.

I don't think the difference in grip will be loads ! The C4 has very similar tyres (305 vs 295) and stance to a C2. Not enough to give massive extra grip I'd venture a guess.

Traction on the other hand is where the C4 will shine, and if you meant that, you are absolutely right ! The C4 will have loads more than the C2.

I hope I'm not nitpicking ? ;-)

Did you feel that yourself in a comparitive testdrive or are you just echoing that video review ? (because I value your opinion as a petrolhead, but the video reviewers' opinion not so much)

You're absolutely not nitpicking ;) it is tracktion I meant indeed :) thank you! That's why I'm on a english language forum, so I can learn to write, talk better english!
:)

BTW: that was my own experience with the cars. I've driven 997's before and there was a much bigger difference between the C2 and C4.
I drove a 991 C2S for about 45 minutes and a 991 C4S a whole day and my experience was that for me personally the C4S felt better and handled a little bit better in the damp wather I was driving in for the second half of that day. On dry I couldn't tell the difference to be honest (on the road, not on the track). That's where the looks of the C4S would make the difference for me personally.

I like that vidoe so much because it exactly reflects my own experience and that feels like a kind of recognition. Not that it is that important of course, but I think it's nice :)

BTW: i didn't come up with that driveshaft thing. I felt that the steering was better, but I didn't know why. But what he says makes a lot of sense, so I assume it is because of that extra driveshaft and better weight distribution. ;)

Suzy991

Both brilliant
 

CS2

+ easier to be a hooligan (over steer, drift, steep the rearout)
+ slightly better fuel econ
+ slightly cheaper
+ slightly more trunk space
+ slightly higher top end

CS4


+ planted and safe, very hard to get out of line
+ looks a little cooler with wider rear and light bar on rear
+ bigger gas tank
+ slightly better weight balance and steering due to extra driveshaft
+ better takeoff grip



There is no wrong choice here! They are both brilliant. Inthe end I picked the CS2 BECAUSE I live where there is snow and I just want tospend the whole winter drifting sideways : )

It was a very hard choice.

I don't agree . I have driven the 996 4S and 993 4S too . Every AWD 911 that I have driven lacked the light crisp 2S drive. Now the electic steering has even made the 2S feel less direct and engaged than in past . In fact even though the Boxster has the electric steering the car feels less inhibited by it than the 991 due to the difference in platform and engine layout .

In my opinion if one "feels" (perceptual) precision with the 4S it only emphasises how poor a choice the electric steering was in the first place for these cars . The weight can not be ignored of the AWD .

Its a great car for the snow or the rain . It's a pretty car but its not the more precise handling machine in the dry surface.

Comparing 993 or 996 with a 991 is comparing apples and oranges. I just have one question... Have you driven the 991 C4S?

Suzy991

It was your original reference to the 997 (when your post stated " Way better than in the 997") which led me to elaborate along the lines of that as well as previous Porsches . I have driven a 4S as well as a 2S but 5-10 minute test drives are never the same as owning the car . How much seat time have you done in any of these cars ?

Sometimes these threads point to doubts of the car owner because unless he (or she) has the entire Porsche line up in his (or her) garage each car has some positive aspect that another Porsche (of the same model line) lacks . A Gt3 may not be as street friendly but my guess (not launched yet) is it will wipe the doors off a 991S at the track. A Turbo may not be as throttle precise but will cream everything in a straight line. A 991 C4S may handle better in the snow (it is Porsches chosen car for its winter school) but not be as agile in a tight corner (even if a lap time tends to comes close) .

To claim that the AWD steering is in any way superior would beg the question "why it it not in the Gt3" ?

I did not say that the steering is superior... Only said hat in case of the 991 the steeringcalibration of the C4S is better than the C2S, due to the difference in weightdistribution or/and extra driveshafts.
I've spend 45 minutes in the C2S in damp weather, driving on mountainroads here in Switserland. Right after that I switched to the C4S and drove that the whole day. Had to bring it back the day after. Drove the C4S in the same damp weather and also in dry sunny weather later that day.
The day after I asked if I could drive the C2S one more time because it was dry weather and I didn't drive it in dry weather, so they gave me the same car for another 30 minutes. That's where I base my opinion on.
The 997 I have driven several times from a friend (Both C2S and C4S) both on the road and once on the track (C2S). That was my reference. And I would never say that the 997 is bad, but the 991 is just much more refined, as one can expect in a newer model. Of course a hydraulic steering is better, but that time is behind us and we have to deal with it that it will never come back. Same story for the manual transmission IMO, but that's another thread ;)
At the end is my experience that the C4S is as nimble as the C2S. The C2S maybe is more fun on a track, but on the road there is not much noticable difference, allthough both have a slightly different character. In comparisation with the 997 the C4S is really much better IMO.
I think Porsche has done a fantastic job with the 991... And whether you go C2 or C4, you can't go wrong. For me personally I prefer the C4S, due to it's character and the looks.

Suzy991