Excellent, order placed, takes the ambiguity out of the equation..

 

I ordered one also to try it.

ChuckJ

 

Please let us know what you guys find!

 

My tester just arrived and I tested my system. I just changed fluid in June so I didn't expect to get a failing result. Mine read <1%. Up to <2% is just by the tester manufacturer to be ok.
The device is very easy to use and appears to work correctly. It says it is calibrated for DOT4 so that implies some level of accuracy, but the package doesn't come with a spec sheet so we don't know the accuracy. It also appears to be German which also gives me some confidence.
It is important to take the reservoir screen out before starting. Install the battery in the device and push the button on top to ensure it's working. Take the bottom cap off and expose the probes. Push the button again and when the battery light illuminates, THEN insert it in the fluid and you will get a reading within a couple seconds.

I'll be checking it over time to see if the fluid degradation is captured by the device.

ChuckJ

 

Thanks Chuck good to know.

 

Guys,

If anyone in Southern California is interested in dealer alternatives for Porsche Service just give me a shout -- our facility is equipped with factory trained technicians (most currently 918 Spyder certified!) we also have the factory PIWIS and PIWIS2 testers.

For Brake fluid flushes - we typically use a tool similar to that pen above to get a read out percentage then advise our customers after getting the reading. No sense is paying for something that your vehicle does not need!

You can also check us out on Yelp -- http://www.yelp.com/biz/house-automo...epair-pasadena

- Jason

 

Great job, Jason. I wish you were in Dallas.

ChuckJ

 

There was a situation (with a VW though) where the owner held off brake fluid flushing for about 5 years. Stepped on the brakes (on a downhill street) and wound up in a huge accident at the bottom of the hill. No stopping power, the brake fluid had a boiling point of about 212'F (nothing better than water in the line!). We used to test brake fluid with the machine that checks the boiling temperature of the fluid (costs about $450) and that's the true test of the fluid - when it boils. We used to borrow this tester for DE days and often found Porsche's where the boiling point was under 250'F. Automatic fail of Tech inspection.

 

My guess is that there was more to that one accident than simply reduced brake effectiveness because the owner hadn't flushed the lines it in 5 years. (state of the brake pads, rotors, lines, driver etc..)

I get the absorption of moisture by the brake fluid.. and indeed it lowers the boiling point. No question there. And yes you can't ignore the lower boiling point isn't a good thing to occur especially in an aggressive performance environment, if and when it does become contaminated. And when it is contaminated in the Master Cylinder reservoir how much of that contamination makes it through the brake lines. Probably a lot of factors including things like the humidity of the location.

But I'm guessing that 90+% of the cars that are 5+ years old out there haven't had their brake lines flushed. Maybe it gets done when they have a major brake service (not just scheduled maintenance). But I'm also guessing there are many cars that have never had or never will have their brake lines flushed. Seems like from a practical standpoint that the roads would be littered in hilly areas with brake related accidents of cars that are over 5 years.

I realize that is an exaggeration and maybe the VW in question was in a more severe environment. In that case I'd probably orry more about corrosion eating up in the lines and causing a failure than anything though.

Out of curiosity, I pulled out my maintenance schedules for an old Toyota truck (2003) and an older audi TT (2003).. Interesting enough not a word that addresses routine brake fluid flush.. There are inspections of the brake lines and pads. Checks for leaks and fluid levels. But nothing about flushing the brake lines or even contamination checks. It could be argued I'm sure that a contamination check might be implicit in the overall check of the fluid levels. But then again until reading this thread I've never even seen a device that checks the brake fluid for contamination. Usually I've just seen, "check if it is dirty"...

It has been said that all OEMs recommend a 24 month flush but I certainly don't see it on two different OEMs. (Just the typical "check it" that is indicated for every maintenance interval).

So I'm starting to wonder if it really even gets done even if you were diligent in having the dealer service your car. (If it isn't on the maint schedule I would be surprised if it is getting done)..

A bit confused now..

 

I don't know who said that all OEMs recommend it, but I'm pretty sure that you'll find that most European manufacturers do. BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, etc. Japanese and American, probably not so much.

My thinking is that if the manufacturer recommends it, why would you not do it? Who cares if Chevy recommends it on your truck, we're talking about a Porsche. Or a BMW, or Merc... all of which tend to last a lot longer than a typical mass production car. Why? Well, sure, they are made of better components, but also (I reckon) because they are better maintained, following a stricter schedule.

My neighbor's minivan had rusted brake lines, rusted from the inside-out. We had fortunately discovered it when bleeding the brakes (for the first time, ever, after 15 years) in the driveway and not on the highway. It cost him nearly as much to have all the brake lines replaced as the car is worth. If he had flushed the system every 2 or even 5 years, I bet that wouldn't have happened.

 

This is the reason. Will water logged brake fluid still stop a car, even a panic stop, on the road? Almost always, yes. But as the brake fluid picks up water it becomes corrosive. Sticking pistons, master cylinder troubles, ABS malfunctions can all be avoided by flushing every 2 years. Can you get away with 3 or 4 years? In drier climates sure. The point is to be on a schedule and know that it is often enough for your situation.

For me as DIY guy, flushing brake fluid is SO easy and inexpensive, I do it every 2-3 years. I have a air powered vacuum bleeder, so it's a 1 person job and takes 30 minutes. Brake fluid is cheap.

 

Don't own a Chevy, haven't owned an American car in 35 years. But the discussion is broader than just your specific list of german cars that you care about..

And who cares? Well it was your anecdotal minivan story about a massive brake failure at 5 years that you used to illustrate your point. And I'm guessing it wasn't a German minivan as most are american or Japanese.. Sounds to me more like it had a much more severe form of contamination than you would ever see at 5 years. But sure, changing fluid at 2 year intervals might have circumvented the contamination.

Not debating if you should or shouldn't go against OEM recommendations. I'm just trying to correlate the broadly touted "OEM recommended" with it actually showing up in a maintenance schedule for an OEMs car.. For Porsche it clearly does so end of debate with respect to that. To your point, it doesn't makes sense to ignore the OEM recommendation (when it does exist).

But some people might have a little bit of curiosity as to why one OEM might recommend while another doesn't. The basics of hydraulic systems have similar concerns.

As I mentioned one of them I could find no reference was Audi (which last time I checked was German although you never know Austria might invade Bavaria, and I suppose that would make Merc, BMW, Porsche, VW and Audio all Austrian cars)... But with the Audi (at least with that older MY) I could find no mention of flushing brake line in any recommended service. I'm not saying it isn't part of there service procedures, just I was surprised not to see as a service item in the manual..

I suspect however it is buried as an inspection item indirectly or part of an overall brake service... But what I expected to find was it in the 24/48/72 month service intervals which would make sense for an OEM recommended action. And I can't seem to find that.. If it is just part of a brake service that could easily be 5+ years or so depending on the car and how it is driven.

I also suspect performance oriented OEMs tend to be very interested in the brake boiling points that are compromised as the fluid is contaminated, which may lead to a more aggressive service recommendations in the case of a Porsche, BMW or Merc..

 

Yeah.. I don't think anyone would question moisture is bad and what corrosion does.. And to your point, PM will prevent that.. no question.

 

How do you get rid of the annoying service reminder on the MFD? My dealer refused to reset the MFD unless they did the work - I said I would change the oil and the brake fluid - they said go ahead but we will not remove the reminder unless we do the work.

 

Durametric