In is undisputed that the vast majority of the fastest 996TTs on this particular forum were built by either EVOMS or Protomotive. In fact, if you look at the ¼ mile list at the top of the forum, the first car not built by one of these two tuners is the Ruf RT-12 and, as impressive as that car is, it is 15th on the list and it is merely an 11 second car. Likewise, if you look at the ET list, the only car in the top 15 is, again, the Ruf RT-12, and it is 13th on the list. The fastest 996TTs on this forum have been built by Protomotive and EVOMS.

Why you ask have I made these observations? A few weeks ago, I read a post by Vivid’s owner wherein he made the following statement regarding his ECU programming partner, Softronic: “Softronic is what is powering alot of the fastest Porsches here” ( https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1484398&postcount=18 ). This statement certainly got my attention, as well as many other long time forum members (I know because we privately discussed the possible interpretations of Vivid’s statement). I also read where several people asked Vivid to explain what it meant by this reference, but their inquiries were met with evasive responses and outright refusals to substantiate the claim. In other words, the statement has NEVER been explained, and the curious masses have been left to speculate and opine about how it is that “Softronic is what is powering alot of the fastest Porsches here.”

As previous explained, the “fastest Porsches here” are built by either EVOMS or Protomotive (that may not be the case on other forums, but it most certainly is the case “here”). We all know that GIAC, in partnership with EVOMS, creates the programming for all of the fastest EVOMS built cars (EVOMS has always been very candid about its relationship with GIAC, even though Todd Z. does more programming in house than others give him credit for). Therefore, Vivid clearly was not referring to EVOMS when it stated that “Softronic is what is powering alot of the fastest Porsches here.”

According to my inferior powers of deduction, that leaves only 996TTs built by Protomotive. Am I missing something? It appears that the only tuner Vivid could possibly have been referring to is Protomotive. Is Softronic software “powering a lot of the fastest Porsches” built by Protomotive?

Now, back to the title of this thread -- I have a simple and straight forward question: What is the relationship between Softronic and Protomotive (if there exists such a relationship)? I have always been led to believe that Protomotive does ALL of its programming in-house. In fact, Protomotive’s customers have often cited this fact when contrasting Protomotive to other tuners who may be, to some degree, dependant on outside vendors for tuning. However, if Softronic is “powering a lot of the fastest Porsches here,” which means Softronic is apparently powering some or all of Protomotive’s cars (because Softronic is not powering EVOMS built cars), my feable mind can only conceive of two possible explanations. The first possibility is that Protomotive is writing software for Softronic. The second possibility is that Softronic is writing software for Protomotive. Perhaps there is a third explanation, but I am far too dense to figure it out (and so are my Porsche brethren with whom I have discussed this amorphous issue).

The question is simple and straight forward: What is the relationship between Softronic and Protomotive? If the answer is that there is no relationship, what is the complete explanation for Vivid’s statement that “Softronic is what is powering alot of the fastest Porsches here.” Marines should feel free to chime in here.

One important point of clarification: I see nothing wrong with using an outside vendor for programming support. Many outstanding tuners out-source some or all of their programming. I do, however, take exception with deception or concealment relating to such relationships. I am not suggesting that any such deception has occurred, but certain facts clearly have been concealed and I think the fine members of this forum deserve to know the facts. I apologize if the answer is self-evident and I missed it, or if there are glaring defects in the reasoning underlying my question. I readily admit that I am not the fastest salmon upstream. I am merely asking the question publicly that MANY others have asked privately.

Regards,

Craig

 

AFAIK Todd Knighton at Protomotive can use the Softronic cable to program DMEs (ECUs) so that they no longer require removal from the vehicle. I think this is a fairly recent option for the customer. It is a cable...a tool, made by Softronic, and it has a USB plug on one end and an OBDII connector on the other. Softronic has cable software for the PC allow the interface (I mean the drivers, files, etc to allow the PC to talk to the ECU). Softronic may offer performance programming (I don't know) but I do know that Todd K. does his own programming. I have no idea what Dan at Vivid was trying to say...I assume sales verbage. I think you are reading a bit into it but I understand that messy verbage is like fingers on a chalkboard to you (Craig). Good for you for trying to clear the apparently foggy air. I hope I was of some help. I should unsubcribe from this thread before another 6speed sh*tstorm starts.

 

Craig,

You need to give us the readers digest version! But you are absolutely correct in saying the fastest Porsches on 6speed are built by:

EVOMS.com and
Protomotive.com

Done deal end of story bye, bye!

 

Doc,

Thanks for sharing those facts. While interesting and relevant, they do not appear to explain Vivid’s statement. Vivid did not state that some of the fastest cars here use Softronic’s cable as the means to deliver the programming to the ECU. To the contrary, he stated that “Softronic is what is powering alot of the fastest Porsches here” (emphasis added) – “powering” being the operative word. Programming “powers” a car – a cable does not. Moreover, the Softronic cable you refer to is a relatively new product and, as far as I am aware, none of the “fastest Porsches here” received their programming via this new cable. Furthermore, if Vivid was simply referring to Softronic’s cable, they surely would have said as such when others inquired, as opposed to evading the issue and claiming that they were precluded from revealing the information. Moreover, Vivid does not simply use Softronic’s cable – they openly obtain their programming from Softronic, and Vivid made its statement in the context of promoting that they obtain their programming from Softronic. As such, Vivid was obviously referring to Softronic’s programming, rather than simply the cable. Moreover, if Vivid were in fact simply referring to Softronic's cable, their statement that “Softronic is what is powering alot of the fastest Porsches here” would have been grossly deceptive (I will give Vivid the benefit of the doubt and presume that this is not the case).

Based on the foregoing, all indications are that Vivid’s statement was based on something more than the mere fact that Protomotive has recently begun to use Softronic’s cable. I surely hope there is more to Vivid’s claim because, if there is not, the statement was disingenuous and deceptive.

I suspect the explanation is simple and, given my rapidly eroding synapses, I have been unable to discern the obvious. Therefore, I look forward to enlightenment. Thanks again Doc.

Regards,

Craig

 

You have way too much time on your hands. Maybe vivid made an erroneous claim or a claim that wasnt totally 100% true, who really cares. This seems like a very petty issue you are highlighting and if I didn't know better I would think you have some sort of personal vendetta toward vivid. With all due respect this thread is a waste of your florid verbage.

 

I agree with Craig on this topic. The programming is what matters and we should have proof availabe for such claims. I am sure all of us would agree that the tune is more important than the way it was downloaded.

 

I think Vivid was just grossly generalizing about "Softronic is what is powering alot of the fastest Porsches here”. Not intended to be an absolute statement, just marketing 101...to use gross generalizations.

 

There are MANY companies that are using softronics application as a vehicles to load non softronic ecu software on to ecus.

Confusing but...You can have a Softronic ecu flash loaded with a Softronic flashloader or you can have a tuner XYZ ecu Flash loaded with a Softronic flashloader.

 

Craig,

I believe Todd uses Softronic's hardware/cable/emulator to access the OE source code. But Softronic is not tuning Protomotive's cars. Vivid is just another customer of Softronic, which means he has access to the source, but that's all he has. Todd has never hidden his partnership with Softronic. I was looking for some help tuning my S4 and Todd pointed me straight to Softronic and their expertise with the ME7.

But all Protomotive's programs are tuned by Todd. So it is technically true for Dan to say Softronic is powering some of the fastest cars, but it is a real stretch. It's like saying AEM powers some of the world's fastest Supras. Yes they do, but it's just the hardware. The tuner makes all the difference. That being said, I do not know if Todd is providing Dan any tuning. I doubt it, but I could be wrong.

As this market gets bigger, you'll have companies like Vivid enter and apply downward pressure on pricing, which is great for all of us. But Vivid is more of a competitor to EVOMS and their off the shelf kits than to Protomotive. And I believe that was Dan's intention all along.

 

Wow, thats the Christmas Spirit. I think your reading way to much into this. If you really want to dwell into the quote, then you need to define the meaning of "fast". To me, quarter mile times are a measure of how "quick" a car is, not how fast. Maybe they do have some of the "fastest" cars here, just not the quickest, as you have shown.

Have fun with that.......

 

Thanks for the explanation Jamie,so if the softronic is supplying the hardware for Vivid then who is doing the actual tuning......Softronic?or Protomotive?or another company?

 

I'm not sure. I hear Softronic has base maps similar to GIAC that a dealer can tweak, but then I also heard they took the base maps from Todd, so I'm not sure. If that rumor is true, I'm sure Todd isn't happy that some of his maps are floating around being used by other shops....

Todd has always acted more like an enthusiast and has an open door policy on his technical advice, vendors, etc. It appears that either Softronic and/or Vivid could be taking advantage of him. I hope that is not true.

 

Jamie-

I do not have a dog in this hunt and do not know one way or another, but I am pretty sure Vivid is selling Todd's turbo kits [24/18's]. Dan has advertised it in his "600 package" on this forum. That being the case, I guess it would also make sense that Todd would help with the programming if the map is specifically for his turbos at least.

Again, not trying to ruffle feathers as unlike some, I have no agenda....I could be wrong here but it makes sense that if he is selling him the turbos he might just help the softronic side as well. Merry Christmas everybody!

 

That could be the case, but Prototech and Protosport act like typical dealers for Protomotive. Sort of like how IA acts for EVOMS. The Vivid 'partnership" seems to be a bit different and for some reason it doesn't smell right. Again, I could be wrong, but if Vivid was just another Protomotive dealer, they wouldn't have felt the need to be so cagey about Softronic. Any shop that posts threads that require enthusiasts to read between the lines doesn't feel right to me.

 

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