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AWD or RWD, get LSD if you're into track driving.
4 track events behind with Manthey-Racing LSD (40/65 lock-up if I remember correctly :)) The car's AWD 996 Turbo with Techart mods.
My comments are the same just like from my experience during some funny street drifting: this setup rocks on the track as well!! It is a good modification for active track guys. Perhaps not the first mod to make but definately very important for handling. The car accelerates much much better. Perhaps in the beginning the understeer was more severe in tight parts due to additional grip, but I got it right with sway bar settings. I doubt I would drive anywhere without a LSD if I had the RWD conversion! When pushing for low lap times, you need the additional grip. Actually I have no experience about RWD 996TT's. In a way I don't enjoy that much the discussions about this RWD vs. AWD topic because a lot of guys seem to just scream here that RWD is much faster...If so, give me some comparable lap times from a familiar track :) When I see some times and good comments about this RWD and AWD I start making my own opinion which is the better for this particular car and what additional mods must be taken into account :) Before someone starts shouting his opinions; Of course I know a GT2 is faster than TT but it is not due to just RWD vs. AWD! Actually, it can be vice versa in some cases. For example if you have a crazy huge massive budget for GT2 modding, making it AWD could be an interesting option, because when done right it adds only a bit weight and no understeer or problems but it could provide additional grip. Even though I know the GT2 is not lacking it that much...Just thinking out loud. And I'm pretty sure I try my car RWD when I hear about tom kerrr's valuable comments, or before them because I'm quite positive about the mod with a proper LSD...but not 100% sure yet, for example the weight saving is not that huge in the Turbo. Summary about my post: - LSD is great for track driving for the 996 Turbo! - You can't just say if AWD or RWD is better or faster for the 996 Turbo because there is a lot of factors that must be taken into account.... EDIT: With this single topic I decided to share some more about my stupidity: My local group including I has taken the opinion that the Pilot Sport Cups are bit faster than Toyo R888's. The cars used in this test were heavily modded track toys, M3 and 2 996's. |
Originally Posted by Kaizu
(Post 1881830)
Actually I have no experience about RWD 996TT's. In a way I don't enjoy that much the discussions about this RWD vs. AWD topic because a lot of guys seem to just scream here that RWD is much faster...If so, give me some comparable lap times from a familiar track :) When I see some times and good comments about this RWD and AWD I start making my own opinion which is the better for this particular car and what additional mods must be taken into account :) Before someone starts shouting his opinions; Of course I know a GT2 is faster than TT but it is not due to just RWD vs. AWD! Actually, it can be vice versa in some cases. For example if you have a crazy huge massive budget for GT2 modding, making it AWD could be an interesting option, because when done right it adds only a bit weight and no understeer or problems but it could provide additional grip. Even though I know the GT2 is not lacking it that much...Just thinking out loud. And I'm pretty sure I try my car RWD when I hear about tom kerrr's valuable comments, or before them because I'm quite positive about the mod with a proper LSD...but not 100% sure yet, for example the weight saving is not that huge in the Turbo. Summary about my post: - LSD is great for track driving for the 996 Turbo! - You can't just say if AWD or RWD is better or faster for the 996 Turbo because there is a lot of factors that must be taken into account.... EDIT: With this single topic I decided to share some more about my stupidity: My local group including I has taken the opinion that the Pilot Sport Cups are bit faster than Toyo R888's. The cars used in this test were heavily modded track toys, M3 and 2 996's. I missed this post but have been researching an LSD recently. I previously was completely against it combined with AWD because I for one, at some tracks even on full stiff have not been able to dial out the understeer completely. But after hearing what the one lappers said about their LSD in the GT2 not increasing push, I'm certainly for more grip in the rear. The RWD is certainly advantageous in acceleration, if you can get it to turn, which it seems Tom has, then it's worth the mod. You'll see about 3 mph increase on every straight. But there are certain turns that the mid corner push will kill your times in. Most people are just impressed with the initial feel of improvement in turn in but when you really start pushing the car to the limits you'll see a severe pid corner push problem. But I can reasonably asser that anything less than what Tom has done is not faster in RWD than AWD, at least at the track I drove. |
If you corner a rwd car w/ out LSD hard the weight will shift to the outside wheel and the inside wheel will spin (not good)! That is why you want to limit the slippage w/ is what LSD does so that more power is transferred to the outside wheel in hard cornering. GT2's have LSD TT's (whish were designed as AWD) do not. From what I have gathered, however, the OEM GT2 and GT3 LSD's are not that robust.
If you do a rwd conversion and like going around corners you should add LSD. The question is, which one to go with, Quaife or Gaurd? |
I would think that Manthey would have this whole rear diff thing figured out since
they have their corporate headquarters is at the ring. MK |
Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu
(Post 2379205)
If you corner a rwd car w/ out LSD hard the weight will shift to the outside wheel and the inside wheel will spin (not good)! That is why you want to limit the slippage w/ is what LSD does so that more power is transferred to the outside wheel in hard cornering. GT2's have LSD TT's (whish were designed as AWD) do not. From what I have gathered, however, the OEM GT2 and GT3 LSD's are not that robust.
If you do a rwd conversion and like going around corners you should add LSD. The question is, which one to go with, Quaife or Gaurd? Either way you slice it, wheels spinning is not good for either layout. Both the 993 TT and 997 TT had LSD option in spite of the RWD. Back on topic, it depends on what your plans are. If you plan on much road course, it's a no brainer (Guard). But if only drag racing, the Quaife might be ok as it will supply what you need under acceleration. |
The 996TT also had an LSD option in some Euro models.
|
Was that LSD the same as the GT2 LSD?
In looking at some of the websites for these I haven't found one yet that actually lists the 996 TT as an application, but always mentions the GT2 and GT3. So I'm wondering if these are the same units. |
Originally Posted by Kaizu
(Post 1881830)
4 track events behind with Manthey-Racing LSD (40/65 lock-up if I remember correctly :)) The car's AWD 996 Turbo with Techart mods.
My comments are the same just like from my experience during some funny street drifting: this setup rocks on the track as well!! It is a good modification for active track guys. Perhaps not the first mod to make but definately very important for handling. The car accelerates much much better. Perhaps in the beginning the understeer was more severe in tight parts due to additional grip, but I got it right with sway bar settings. I doubt I would drive anywhere without a LSD if I had the RWD conversion! When pushing for low lap times, you need the additional grip. Actually I have no experience about RWD 996TT's. In a way I don't enjoy that much the discussions about this RWD vs. AWD topic because a lot of guys seem to just scream here that RWD is much faster...If so, give me some comparable lap times from a familiar track :) When I see some times and good comments about this RWD and AWD I start making my own opinion which is the better for this particular car and what additional mods must be taken into account :) Before someone starts shouting his opinions; Of course I know a GT2 is faster than TT but it is not due to just RWD vs. AWD! Actually, it can be vice versa in some cases. For example if you have a crazy huge massive budget for GT2 modding, making it AWD could be an interesting option, because when done right it adds only a bit weight and no understeer or problems but it could provide additional grip. Even though I know the GT2 is not lacking it that much...Just thinking out loud. And I'm pretty sure I try my car RWD when I hear about tom kerrr's valuable comments, or before them because I'm quite positive about the mod with a proper LSD...but not 100% sure yet, for example the weight saving is not that huge in the Turbo. Summary about my post: - LSD is great for track driving for the 996 Turbo! - You can't just say if AWD or RWD is better or faster for the 996 Turbo because there is a lot of factors that must be taken into account.... EDIT: With this single topic I decided to share some more about my stupidity: My local group including I has taken the opinion that the Pilot Sport Cups are bit faster than Toyo R888's. The cars used in this test were heavily modded track toys, M3 and 2 996's. FOR ME what has RWD done. again for me the car does handle better. It certainly trail brakes better, rotates now when couldnt before. and throttle steers now not before cause I couldnt kick the rear out because of the front wheels trying to pull through the corners. I agree with HC about the high speed mid corners being ah difficult. I have mastered long sweepers now and CAN run them at WOT where I couldnt before (ie learning curve and brain vs balls thing, I lean toward less brains and more balls so again that should be taken into consideration) also my car has NO understeer at this point. I also run 275 front and 335 rears lastly to address the lap time thing. my home track is Sebring. know it like the back of my hand. my lap times before my last big conversion I just did I dropped my PR by 8 seconds. probably multiple factors etc but still real world data, can send my traqmate data if anyone wants to see it. this coming weekend if the car runs? will be my first set of transponder timed full wheel to wheel racing so I will see what times I run in qualifying. car still has some bugs and this is the first race weekend so no big expectations so I dont get disappointed....and that's all I have to say about that.:cool: car is now fully caged and 300 pounds lighter than before. oh yeah but there will be Cup cars in the way!!! and those dudes can drive!!! |
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