Yes sir, that is the same one RobertP just installed. We also sell them here - http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/j...filter_id=5078. I have a JIC SEMA promo right now. PM me.

 

Hello guys, I want to thank everyone for feeding their thoughts / responses toward my thread, when I first started it I was hoping some can offer me advices and opinion on my 650 turbo kit and I will do what I can to " repair " my car car and never thought it will end in such a way. I have been debating if I should post anything that may risk myself in trying to sell this kit or should have leave it alone.. but a story always have 2 sides, but there is no reason to go out and bash vivid if I had a pleasant buying experience.

Dan, I really don't know what to say anymore... gotta give you a big hand for the show. And yes, you did offer me advices on trying this & that to solve this whole issue out, from oil smoking issue to now car underpower, but when I had tried all the options you suggested and I had even seriously consider paying for your tech to fly out to Vancouver to solve my problems. And we still could not come up with a solution, you at one time asked me to REMOVE the kit, and I really should have listened to you back then.

You always tell me and now publicly CG motorsports www.cgmotorsports install the kit wrongly from the begining, and as a result the kit was damaged. I agree having to install a high hp turbo kit requres skills and knowledge, but in this case I really don't think CG has screwed up; firstly, they have been in biz for quite some time and Chris himself is a reputable tuner in Vancouver, perhaps he does not specialize in porsche but he does know what he is doing secondly, he followed the steps of how you instruction manuals told him to and perhaps the mistake is listening to you. As we can see from the 650 turbo kit's parts diagram, most of the stuff are bolt on and some require light modifcations in fitment or what not, but the shop is more than capable in installing the kit.

The one mistake that CG made during the installation was following Dan's instructions. At hooking up of EBC, Dan insisted that the lines should be hooked up to COM & NO on the solenoid but it should have been COM & NC, I was overboosting the car ( at least according to the reading from EBC, not sure if it was even accurate because EBC was hooked up wrong back then ) and eventually when I pm a few members that had bought Dan's kit, I then realized I had the wrong way hooked up, and when I ask Dan to confirm this, he basically told me yes I gave the wrong instructions but you should have look closer to the wiring diagram I gave you and therefore it is not my fault.. go figure who would question a pro that sold you the turbo kit, and if he says hook up to COM & NO , why would I do it the otherway around?? In regards to this, I had to pay extra to CG for diagnosing this mumbo jumbo that should not have happened at the first place, and of course no apologies or any form of apologize from vivid racing. And up until the last email I exchanged with Dan, he still insisted it was not his fault, but for those who looked at the wiring diagram, am I the one to be blamed by looking at this diagram?

Anyways, to confirm if CG screws up or not, I have even brought the car to weissach vancouver, not only once but a few times to have it inspect and get a 3rd party opinion when Dan questioned the installation from CG to engine leak down test, boost leak test... I wanted to know what went wrong and how, so a 3rd party opinion was critical to me. From my last email, guess what?? Dan claimed weissach is not qualified to offer opinion on this turbo kit, and this is a dealership that has installed a few EVO 700 car, yet Dan claimed they are not qualified to offer advices in terms of the reliability of the kit. And even when I had a burned off spark plug, with a sign of slight detonation, Dan again has his side of story.

Dyno graphs, I don't see the problem with it. What is the problem starting it at 2500 rpm, with 2500 rpm you give time for turbos to start spooling and hence can have a real reading of the graphs or it power curve. And that being said, I dyno the car before the kit installed and it also started out at 2500 rpm. Apples VS Apples,what is wrong?

Many have asked why not ship the car to Dan and have it fixed at no cost. This is also something that worries me, from the last couple months of experiences I really lost faith in him. There are too many what ifs that worries besides the distance and the cost of shipping ( ~ $ 3000 both ways from Seattle ) and Dan was only paying ticket in his generous offer, not one way shipping.

And yes, I was asking technical question of the mapping on the car. As we get into the higher hp application, don't you think it is reasonable to ask what exactly you have on your car in terms of afr and timing, don't we all want to learn more about our cars and don't you think a paying customer has every right to ask what is on the plate besides being a puppet and do what you are told to. I find this really ridiculous and bothering. And when I had asked another tuner a very simple question in regards to how do you measure AFR value, I ended got that tuner into unnecessary trouble that he had no business in. And as a matter of fact, as I get into the technical aspects of the map from data logging, I discover a few things that concerned me and hence I am making the decision to remove the parts and sell it. I know I will not a lot of luck in attempting to sell it on 6 speed and perhaps I can try Dan and ask him to buy it back even at a discount since I really did not and had never experiement the pull of this 650 kit, of course he outright refused it, which I am not surprised at all.

There is no doubt Dan knows how to build his company reputation and pleased customers in a generally speaking way, but taking good care of a customer that buy a boost hose and a turbo kit is different especially when something screws up and the required technical knowledge & support required is at a different level IMHO. I am not arguing with anybody in terms of their personal shooping experience with vivid racing, that is none of my businees but for me, it was not a pleasant one and unfortunately for me I learnt it the hard way.

 

You hook up external Wgs differently to the greddy valve vs. internal WGs like on a K24/18g. I bet you guys followed the book instructions and screwed up.
SO if you have external WGs( tial) then COM and NO is correct. if you have internal WGs then you hook it up still the same way except the hook up the 3rd hole called NC to the DV line ... So that diagram is correct for external WGs... the lines form the COm to the WGs whould go to the top of the Tial and the side nipple should be hooked up to a pressure source like the compressor housing or near the Y pipe by the throttle body. YOU LEAVE THE NC PORT OPEN.
maybe soemthing else is wrong??? did you take out the plastic plug from the NC port? what did you guys do with the line coming from the DVs?
DID ANYONE PRESSURE TEST THE CAR? how much boost was it holding? IF not then the installers are NOT as professional as they appear to be.
I just did a basic k24/18g set up for a friend and I not only pressure tested from the turbos but I also checked the WGs to see if they open up at the same time. I installed the greddy as well... NO Problems on my end what so ever and I am no mechanic. I even ran a Y band on it to see the AFRs... all this is a MUST on turbo cars....
just my .02 cents,
Markski

 

Sorry to hear about your problems. Spending good money then not working out to your expectations must not be a good feeling.

 

Yeh...I figured as much that your setup was overboosting early on when we chatted over IM. The wastegates would never open at all with Dan's instructions...aka serious overboosting! I tried correcting Dan on the post below but went through deaf ears. I ended up researching on my own and went through the Greddy EBC instructions carefully. Indeed, research pointed out that the hook-up instructions were wrong.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...astegates.html

 

On Oct 14 I Ken sent me this email -
Dan, I am very frustrated to see how things are turning into from the day I bought the kit from you and I hope we can get all these thigns straighten out without going through loops over and over again. As stated from my posts on 6 speed, all I am asking for is to make sure my dollars spent gets me to what I paid for, nothing else.

In terms of a boost leak test, when I brought my car to weissach for a leak down test, they also did a boost leak test and they claim there was nothing wrong. I am not sure the way they did it exactly, but can you advise which way is the most accurate way to tell or measure the boost leak? On the EBC side, I do know one thing for sure they hooked up their own PST2 and the logged the boost and it was identical to the boost shown on greddy EBC, so EBC was installed correctly. If there was no boost leak, the reading of the boost hold should hold it self throughout the entire rpm range uinder wot condition, right? So, my 2nd flash file that I received from scott was not doing that and it only hold 1.2 - 1.25 bar up until 5000 rpm and dropped down to 0.7 - 0.8 bar til redline and if this equals a boost leak, why did it not happen to the original file that I reflash again.

Shipping the car to you is going to cost me another 3500 bucks out of my pocket, and on top of that is time. I am just afraid this is not the end of it. What else can you suggest me to do, do you have an affliated vendor up in pacific northwest or even in oregon that I can pay a visit to as long as it is in reasonble driving distance and you can have them inspect the vehicle?

I replied with this -

• Get a credit from CG or have them get the car working for what you paid them.
• Ship the car to me as my offer stands on 6speed. We can work it to ship 1 way and maybe you enjoy the drive back. Depending on the date, maybe I can work a track day in for FREE for you. I know you have spent $$$ at other places, but I cannot be responsible for their inabilities. We dont charge people here for time, we charge people to do work properly.
• OR
• Draw me a diagram of how the boost controller is hooked up in the entirity including how the diverter valves are connected in the loop.
• Take detailed pictures of the boost controller installation.
• Do a boost pressure test, PLEASE.

Hi Dan, I brought the car to weissach to check for leaks and boost hoses have been inspected and it has been confirmed once again there are no boost leaks. However, there is an interesting find that my spark plugs showing signs of running lean and the one of the spark plug electrode has been burned off, and in its opinion it is not safe to run the kit with the engine because it will not protect the engine. If you want me to show pictures to you on the spark plugs, I can send them over to you.

After going through al this troubles, and sunking so much unnecessary money, I have decided to take this kit off and go back to stock and I want my money back. I will not post any comments on 6 speed or any other websites, but I just want to go back to where I was and move on. And Dan you know that I have literally done everything I can in order to make it work,and If you really want to help me out, get me out of this and I will remove all the parts and box them up niely and send it back to you. If you need to talk to me, you can call me on my cell ***-***-****

I replied with -
Your spark plugs show running lean cause CG hooked the boost controller up wrong and you were running like 2bar of boost! I am sorry Ken, I cannot give you money back for others shops mistakes or what they think. You have a perfectly good working product. We have advised you time and time again. The cost of what it would take for you to take the kit off you could have the car to me to be working fine. We have told you time and time again what needs to be done and we even brought up your odd dyno sheet. I am sorry Ken, but I cannot give you a refund. If you want to take the time to post on the forums your story which you have, that is up to you, but we will fight it and show the public the truth.

I have given you the options per my last email.

10/20 Ken Says -

Dan, don't get up set. I am the victim of all this mumbo jumbo, at the end of the day I paid for a product that was supposed making 650hp but it did not come close to. The kit is still on the car and I will be removing it. It is ashame that you keep pointing fingers at CG, and I have told you a number of time, even weissach looked through the installation of the kit, they told me it is how it supposed to be... Are you going to question weissach now?? You asked me to check for boost leaks, intercooler end cap may be cracking... I checked it all. When weissach did the leak down test, I already have all the plugs replaced, and at the same token, I am wondering why you are concern why the electrode part of the spark plug was burned off? Was that already anticipated? Simply put, this kit will not be making the kind of power it was advertised, unless I have 100 octane fuel and crank up the boost at the same time.

Save all the emails you want, I am a paying customer, I paid for a product that I expect to work but it did not and in turn the guy who sold me the parts blame me for posting help on public forum. What a joke!

I reply with -

I am not upset. You are the victim of installation. You paid for a 650hp kit or 500+ awhp kit on a Mustang Dyno. CG did make mistakes. Weissachs is not a aftermarket tuner. They have never installed one of these kits, nor do I know if they are familiar with EBC on Porsche. They use to be a RUF dealer and dont do that anymore. As a car dealer, they are traditionalists. So yes, they can do a boost test, but no they are not qualified to discuss this kit. You had the plugs replaced? With what? The Denso IK22 parts we sent you or something else? This is news to me... The spark plug looking like it has run lean is from 1 issue. You were running the car at excessive boost when you first got it. You were on the phone with me as you were doing pulls and you told me you were making over 2 bar boost which is not good at all. 1.3bar max on pump gas.

Ken I have been here since the beginning to help you. I save emails as records to refer back to you. You did not post for help, in fact your title basically says it all. I do not know why you cannot understand the 2 issues here. 1 - YOUR BOOST CONTROL. 2 - THE DYNO. The dyno you ran on is not correct. Your car will make 500awhp without a doubt. Look Ken, I am done arguing with you. If you want to only believe what you want to, I cannot control that. I built this kit on my own personal car and ran it for almost year. I have sold enough kits where the products all perform and Vivid Racing has installed them here. Yes they are difficult. The components included in the kit are completely capable of what you want. In fact, each GT2860rs turbo is good for 400hp per side. If you think I am joke, then so be it. You are the one with the $10K turbo kit right now not working. I can either help you or not help you. If you bash me, I will rebut, if you want me to help you, I will do everything I can to.

I will tell you this, if you brought the car down to me, and I fixed your issues, then strapped it on the dyno with pump gas of 94 octane and it did not make 500awhp, then sure as hell, I will pull that kit off and give you your money back.

Here are some emails between Ken and Softronic -

1. Scott, the following is the data I just logged. This time I have a friend sitting right beside me and monitor the boost controller's boost gauge reading. I am still having a problem, i have a very obvious power lost when I come close to 4500rpm - 4800rpm. For instance, when I wot on 3rd gear from 3000rpm, I will have boost build to about 1.1 bar and then boost starts falling and was holding 0.7 - 0.8 bar all the way till the redline. The power lost is very obvious and this is evident on every gear that I tried, and that is why I have data for second, third and fourht gear for you to analyze. And also, can you tell me what are differences between the first flash file you sent me and the one you I am running now. Please advise, thanks.

1. Scott, you are saying this file that I am running right now would have more hp because of added timing and fuel? And out of the 2 files that I have, which one should have ran more hp? When I look look at injection time, it corresponds to the fall off after 4500 rpm, is there any way you can add timing and fuel from the fall-off point? If i have boost leak, which I really don't think I have, would I not have boost at all from 3000 rpm and not 4500 rpm onwards??

For " precat bank 1 o2 sensor voltage " which one is it that I should use?

1. Corrected sens. voltage ahead of cat. converter, bank 1

2. O2S volt. ahead of cat converter, B1

1. Scott, how do my numbers look in terms of AFR? With the new flash file, I'm now holding 1.2 bar, but I am also curious about the lambda reading I logged. I noticed as the rpm picks up, the lambda valur reads lower and hoverign around 0.80 but at around 5200 rpm, the lambda value spikes up really high and goes back to the lower reading, can you please tell me why is that? Is that a sign that I am running lean? Please advise. Thanks.

1. Scott, this flash file that I am running now is the original one you sent me. What you are saying is I am having a leak at ~ 5000 rpm and because of the a boost leak, I am getting a high lamdda reading spike? Injectors rate, can you please tell me what % are they running at because i do not know that and would like to know. When you say my dyno chart starts out 100hp less, it does not matter because my previous dyno was based on the same set up and setting and the graphs for both dyno starts out from the same basis.

I am working on plans how to make it work by bringing the car to vivid because I will be gone for a 1 month vacation in November.

This is the one I do not get???

Hi Scott, the car drives faster than before! Please take a look at the enclosed data and tell me if I am running enough fuel for the power I was making. It was rainy, I did not take it close enough to the red line but can you still tell by the pulls I have made and advise how the motor did? And FYI, I adjust the EBC back to my original setting and I was making 1.18 - 1.22 bar.

Please let me know as soon as you are able to analyze them. Thanks.

 

If CG did not check everything through when installing the turbo kit as Dan had suggested, I am sure my engine may be damaged by overboosting. And if my engine was somehow damaged when following his instructions in hooking up the ebc, do you think Dan will step up to the plate and take responsibility? In fact, my point is to show CG did not just do a sloppy job putting them up the kit, and neither would I bring my car to a shop that would not care about my car.

 

Ken - When Vivid Racing installs any product including someone elses supercharger, exhaust, ECU flash, wheels, coilovers, or anything, we TEST DRIVE the car and make sure it is perfect before delivery. Do you realize how many calls we had to take from CG that did not know what or how to do. I think this was there first time working on a Porsche. In fact Chris at CG called me on the phone and said the technician at the tuner shop next store to his was an asian guy that could probably speak in the same "native" language as my asian tech to do the boost controller... seriously.

Ken I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING I can. Unless you have a vested interest in CG or Weissach, then just change gears and bring the car to me. Otherwise, sell the kit, and do something else. All we are doing is entertaining 6speed members with this post.

 

One mistake I made when making comments to both scott and dan on the emails are I got mixed up with the boost spike and boost hold. When I emailed those guys about the boost I was getting, I relied on the boost peak reading and mistakenly understood as boost hold, which I now know is incorrect.

Another comment Ray made was when I had the car with the kit installed, Ray has always been my " drag race partner " from rolling 2nd to rolling 3rd gear at about 3000rpm to test my car out. Ray's car is a stage 2 car with evo chip, exhaust and intake. And Ray can verify that all along I was only able to pull 1/2 carlength away from him until 120mph + then I can pull away from him slowly. And about the boost lost and boost holding, he was the one that corrected me that reading peak boost is not the same reading boost hold.

 

"Hi Scott, the car drives faster than before! Please take a look at the enclosed data and tell me if I am running enough fuel for the power I was making. It was rainy, I did not take it close enough to the red line but can you still tell by the pulls I have made and advise how the motor did? And FYI, I adjust the EBC back to my original setting and I was making 1.18 - 1.22 bar."

"I am working on plans how to make it work by bringing the car to vivid because I will be gone for a 1 month vacation in November."

 

The way I read it is that some shop took a car... wheather experienced or not... did the install ... probably for the first time on a Porsche.... and something as basic as a boost controller line may have caused all this drama....
That picture Dan supplied is actually correct when it comes to external WGs....
Looks like you guys were runing in KILL MODE and the car made 2 bar or more...
IF that would happen I would immediately let off and coast back to the shop...
I think you guys hooked up the lines to the WGs wrong.... you hooked then up to the side of the WG instead of the top....
I also would like to know what happened to the Original DV line that was hooked up to the stock solenoid.

 

so when the car was holding 1.2 bars did it haul *** or what?? and if it was holding 1.2 bars then you it should of been good to go.. no?

 

on 94 octane you can run 1.3bar no problem. when I was running 109octane for fun, i was running 1.4 bar on my car.

 

markski - yes I think that is a common problem with people running EBC is they leave the DV's still connected to the factory boost solenoid line. If you follow that line from the DV's, it goes to a hard line which runs behind the Y pipe on top of the pulleys then bends to the stock solenoid. This entire piece needs to be removed.

Zip22 - you have done a good job with your install from what I know, any pictures?

 

Your can bring a horse to water...but you cant make him drink

Ken...sorry buddy I know your a good guy, but if i were you I would get the car to Dan. He will make the most power on the car.Or bring it to Toronto...I will get it running right for you