996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Reinventing My Turbo Through Cooperative Tuning (SG, IA, UM, EVO MS and GIAC)

Thread Tools
 
Rate Thread
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 02:37 AM
  #1  
Craig's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !
Reinventing My Turbo Through Cooperative Tuning (SG, IA, UM, EVO MS and GIAC)

After much contemplation and research, I have finally decided to pull the trigger and open up my case. Given that my car is an amalgamation of components from several different tuners/sources, and my primary tuner, Speed Gallery, does not rebuild engines in house, planning this project took a considerable amount of time and effort. Fortunately, through a cooperative effort of many different people, this project is finally ready to commence this week.

First and foremost, I need to thank the people who are making this project possible. Dan from Speed Gallery has been at the eye of the hurricane, coordinating between the various participants, and bringing everything together. Stephen from Imagine Auto will be doing the actual rebuild, and he has provided invaluable input throughout the planning stages. Kevin from Ultimate Motorworks has also provided critical input regarding how to best accomplish this project. Todd from EVO MS has provided both important input and necessary components for the project. Garrett from GIAC will be providing the essential programming for the unique set up. I could not undertake this project without the assistance and cooperation of each of the above listed gentlemen and I am sincerely grateful to each of them for their invaluable contributions. THANK YOU DAN, STEPHEN, KEVIN, TODD AND GARRETT.

The following is a list of the parts/services comprising this project:

Carrillo rods
GT3R oil pump
Imagine Auto upgraded head studs
Imagine Auto upgraded, coated valve springs
EVO MS fuel kit, including larger injectors, high flow pump, billet rails and steel lines
EVO MS throttle body kit, including 996NA throttle body and modified Y-pipe
EVO MS V-Flow intake box
Custom GIAC programming (1.6+ bar, 100 octane)
Shuffle pin case
Ceramic coat piston tops
Dry lube rods and skirts
New OEM bearings, gaskets, seals and piston rings

The project is scheduled to start later this week when Speed Gallery (“SG”) pulls the engine. SG will ship the engine via Bax Global to Imagine Auto (“IA”). IA will be splitting the case and sending out various components of the engine to subcontractors for specialized services. For example, the case is being shuffle pinned, the Carrillo rods and piston skirts are being dry lubed, and the piston tops are being ceramic coated. Upon receiving the parts back from the subs, IA will rebuild the engine with the Carrillo rods, GT3R oil pump, IA upgraded head studs, IA upgraded (stronger), coated valve springs, and new OEM bearings, gaskets, seals and piston rings.

Upon receiving the engine back from IA, SG will install: (1) EVO MS’s fuel kit, including larger injectors, high flow pump, billet rails and steel lines, (2) EVO MS’s throttle body kit, including 996NA throttle body and modified Y-pipe, and (3) EVO MS’s V-Flow intake box. Then, GIAC will step in and, using an existing EVO MS program designed for the injectors (supplied by EVO MS) as a template, GIAC will create a custom 1.6+ bar, 100 octane program designed specifically for my Ultimate Motorworks Stage V turbos. This program will be created by GIAC on Dan’s shop car, using the same turbos, along with an EVO MS upgraded fuel kit.

If all goes smoothly, Ill have the car back by the end of April, just in time to break it in before summer.

This project requires the cooperation of many different tuners and I am genuinely grateful for their willingness to work together. Thank you Dan, Stephen, Kevin, Todd, Garrett and all the guys at Speed Gallery.

Craig
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 07:05 AM
  #2  
buddyg's Avatar
Registered User
20 Year Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,325
From: Michigan
Rep Power: 334
buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !buddyg Is a GOD !
What is the HP/TQ goal with this car?
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 07:24 AM
  #3  
cjv's Avatar
cjv
Moderator
20 Year Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !cjv Is a GOD !
Craig,

Sounds like a very sound plan. The only other thing I would have added was steel liners with the 1.6 bar.
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 07:53 AM
  #4  
Marc's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,005
From: Miami
Rep Power: 227
Marc is just really niceMarc is just really niceMarc is just really niceMarc is just really niceMarc is just really nice
Craig you sick boy...cant wait too see how it turns out....sounds like a real undertaking..how long is the warranty
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 09:20 AM
  #5  
Craig's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !
Originally posted by buddyg
What is the HP/TQ goal with this car?
As much as possible!!! +/- 800 at the crank? Perhaps a tad more.

Craig
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 09:26 AM
  #6  
Craig's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !
Originally posted by mikesmith
Craig, sounds like quite an undertaking.
Why not change the heads to increase flow to allow lower boost pressures more in-line with the ZC's parameters.

Why not go to different cams and/or GT3/GT3R heads to get the necessary airflow to allow say the same 1.3bar levels which would lower the heat also(PV=NRT).

Seems at these boost levels you're reaching the maximum levels of the turbos and would see increased turbo life at lower levels.?
Judging from CJV's experiences, changing the heads is far from a simple task, and more of an undertaking than I am prepared for.

The Stage V ZCs run at 1.6 bar without a problem. How do I know? I've been running them at that level for a few months now (ergo, the reason I am rebuilding my engine before I ventilate it). Moreover, I haven't ruled out the possibility of switching to a Stage VII ZC, which is good for over 1,000 hp. My only concern is the increased lag.

Craig
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 09:29 AM
  #7  
Craig's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !
Originally posted by cjv
Craig,

Sounds like a very sound plan. The only other thing I would have added was steel liners with the 1.6 bar.
I looked into the steel liners, but opted to go without them. That being said, if you have an extra set around (OEM sizes) that you are looking to unload, I'd buy them from you.

Craig
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 09:34 AM
  #8  
ZAMIRZ's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,394
From: 818
Rep Power: 129
ZAMIRZ has much to be proud ofZAMIRZ has much to be proud ofZAMIRZ has much to be proud ofZAMIRZ has much to be proud ofZAMIRZ has much to be proud ofZAMIRZ has much to be proud ofZAMIRZ has much to be proud ofZAMIRZ has much to be proud ofZAMIRZ has much to be proud of
Wow. I want a ride when you get it back Craig

Long live the SoCal tiptronic warrior.
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 09:47 AM
  #9  
markski@markskituning's Avatar
Basic Sponsor
20 Year Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,730
From: CHICAGO
Rep Power: 604
markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !
AWESOME- AWESOME-AWESOME
 
__________________

2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66
seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile
click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL




Old Mar 15, 2005 | 10:05 AM
  #10  
02barebones996's Avatar
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,666
From: SOCAL, 91 x 605
Rep Power: 318
02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute02barebones996 has a reputation beyond repute
i cant wait to see this done craig...

TIPPY's RULE.. and who said that TIps were ghey...
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 12:23 PM
  #11  
Zippy's Avatar
Registered User
20 Year Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,787
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Rep Power: 209
Zippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond reputeZippy has a reputation beyond repute
Sounds awsome Craig. What about the potential for "barrels?" break down Chad was referring to. I believe he was saying over 700HP there could be issues?? I noticed you were involved in this conversation on Chad's thread. What are barrels?

Mike
 

Last edited by Zippy; Mar 15, 2005 at 12:26 PM.
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 12:47 PM
  #12  
03-turbo911's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,992
From: Bahrain
Rep Power: 229
03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold
The very best of luck Craig. Is the tip going to be built up to withstand all of this power?
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 01:09 PM
  #13  
Craig's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !
Originally posted by Zippy
Sounds awsome Craig. What about the potential for "barrels?" break down Chad was referring to. I believe he was saying over 700HP there could be issues?? I noticed you were involved in this conversation on Chad's thread. What are barrels?

Mike
Barrells are the cylinders/sleeves that the pistons move within. Some believe that the OEM Nikasil (coated with Nickel Silicon Carbide) barrells may be susceptable to cracking at higher hp levels and steel barrells are stronger. 9ff used steel barrells on its recent record breaking car (http://www.excellence-mag.com/art1/art1p2.html). On the other hand, many engine builders believe that Nikasil barrells are superior. Check out http://www.lnengineering.com/aircraft.html for info re: Nikasil. I am far from knowledgeable on such matters, but I have consulted with my engine builder and determined that my OEM Nikasil barrells will be fine for my application, just as they are working fine for EVO's 1000 hp car and IA's 900 HP car.

Craig
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 01:14 PM
  #14  
Craig's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !
Originally posted by 03-turbo911
The very best of luck Craig. Is the tip going to be built up to withstand all of this power?
I sure hope so. Sharky's non-x50 Tip is handling similar (if not greater) power levels. My x50 Tip is stronger and should be fine. If not, TTP will rebuild and reinforce my Tip. Sharky may also have a US rebuilder if that becomes necessary.

Craig
 
Old Mar 15, 2005 | 01:16 PM
  #15  
Craig's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !Craig Is a GOD !
Originally posted by Kevin
Yeah, when I found out that Craig was running consistant 1.6 bars, the urgency of new rods became a MUST.. I just envisioned Craig rivaling Chads "S" rods...
Kevin, I'm still trying to decide between the Stage Vs and the Stage VIIs. I'm concerned about increased lag (particularly since I've become accustomed to nearly no lag with the Vs).

Craig
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:39 PM.