OK are the faster rwd combos doing this on the street or track? It is a lot harder than I had envisioned making this happen rwd on the street

 

This thread is all but dead. This thread hasn't been updated in 1.5 months. Since the last update to this thread on September 8th, 359 files have been updated for verification to vboxtools.com. That's an average of 51 files per week since September 8th. IMO, people are going elsewhere to get their files verified because they don't need a human to do it any longer -- the software can do it for them.

So to revive the 6so concept of an "official list" why not try something a little new. Here's a few ideas that might help. Why not start a new "official list" of results that always correct the times for slope? Basically, why not "level" the playing field by offering a list where all the times are normalized to 0% slope? Keep all the same rules in place like 3% on 60-130's, but start a new list that corrects for slope. The vboxtools.com software can do this.

Another idea is to open up this new list to vBox 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, and standing mile categories. vboxtools.com software emulates full NHRA and Texas Mile rules for roll-out and trap speed calculations. The software is usually within a fraction of a second and fraction of a MPH of the actual drag race and Texas Mile time slips. So basically I'm saying that the software is accurate enough to use for a master speed list.

Would anybody want to see a new list like this that corrects for slope, and adds 1/4 mile and standing mile results to vBox comparisons?

 

This list does have 1/4 and Mile results.

 

yep we like our list.

 

The list doesn't allow for GPS based timers for 1/4 mile drags. That was because the vBox measures instantaneous velocity and can't calculate a 1-ft roll-our or 66-ft trap speed. It's very difficult to get standard Race Logic software to calculate an NHRA drag results with all of the intermediate results at 60', 330', 1/8 Mile, and 1000' as well. I managed to do it with a very complicated set of Race Logic software macros. But it was very cumbersome. I'm talking about other software that can do these exact things very easily, and even verify the vBox file to a greater degree of accuracy than a human (checks for more types of errors than a person wouldn't notice).

But 6so does allow vBox results for a standing mile and allows for up to 3% negative slope at the same time. The Texas Mile and Mojave Mile both use a 132-ft trap speed calculation with 1-ft roll-out and are run on a flat surface. That will make the vBox results appear much higher to the Texas Mile or Mojave Mile -- it's an apples to oranges comparison but appear in the same list. I'm proposing a slightly more scientific and accurate approach to the same problem. If you're going to mix Texas Mile time slips with vBox results, then they should be using the same rules to compare them. Trap speed vs. trap speed (not trap speed vs. terminal velocity), and flat surface to flat surface (1% to 1% slope, not 1% slope to 3% slope). So again, I'm proposing to level the playing field and allow the mix to be more scientific. For standing mile results, use the software to mimic actual Texas Mile trap speed calculations, and disallow more than a 1% slope for standing mile runs.

I'm not talking about taking this list away or even changing it. The last results posted to this thread occurred on May 19th. Since May 19th, 439 files have been uploaded to vboxtools.com for verification. People are going elsewhere to verify their files, and this thread is basically dead. I'm just posing the question whether people want to see it revived in a new thread with some changes to make it easier to compare one set of results to another. I've had two tuners asking me about a list that would normalize the results to a flat surface, and using the vBox to compare against NHRA and Texas Mile results. The same software can do all of this. I'm wondering if anybody is interested in something like that.

 

we do not accept vbox for mile results, 1/4 mile results or 1/2 mile results. Vbox is only accepted for 60-130 and 100-150.

 

I'm not sure I understand the reference. Who's the "we" and what web site? This site does accept vBox results for standing mile; says so on the first post. Also refer to these two posts as reference.

Post 568. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3689565

Your response in post 569. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3689654

That standing mile results was posted from this vBox file submitted to vboxtools.com:




Notice 6SO listed this as 210.9 MPH, but his actual trap speed would have been higher at 211.1 MPH according to Texas Mile rules. The lower terminal velocity (210.9 MPH) was because he started to slow down before he finished the mile.

 

that 210 is not on the list. i am fairly certain that the 6spd list does NOT accept vbox standing mile runs and that you are wrong in saying that it does. even though they cant go in the list they can still be shared here..

 

I think you should know me better than that by now.

The first post of this thread says the following (I highlighted the part that says vBox files are OK for Standing Mile results):

The 210.9 MPH run I mentioned was added to the list back in November 2012. That entry prompted me to have a PM exchange with Mike Bailey to ask how he calculated standing mile from vbox, and what the maximum slope allowed. His answers: 1) Velocity at 5280 ft (no trap speed, no 1-ft roll-out), 2) < 3% slope. I still have the PM exchange stored in my inbox/outbox. It's not fake.

That 210.9 MPH run was later replaced with the 221.6 MPH one that appears now. I couldn't find any official announcement to the list except Mike Bailey saying on September 23rd 2013: "I suspect we have a vid coming soon of him in the Moscow standing mile event!!"

Post-1131: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3943486

A few days earlier than Mike's comments, on September 15th 2013, Sergey uploaded this vBox file to vboxtools.com. Although I can't be sure this is the same file used for the master list, notice the terminal velocity matches the value in this list. I'm willing to bet this is the run Sergey used and now appears on the master list.




BTW, I'm pretty sure Sergey has an even faster terminal velocity now in the standing mile...one that apparently hasn't been posted here. I'm not 100% sure this is his car, but I think it is.




I'm just going by what I see in the very first post, the results I've seen posted in the thread, the PM's I've had about it, the files uploaded to the site, and telling you what I saw. You don't have to believe any of it if you don't want to. But now that we got it out of the way, I'm still curious about my original questions? I'm really curious if people are interested in a list that normalizes to 0% slope and includes VBox results from 1/4 Mile (NHRA), 1/2 Mile (NHRA), and Standing Mile (Texas Mile) trap speed calculations. It doesn't sound like it even if some tuners are.

 

i guess its been a while since i paid attention to it. it wasnt like that before. i agree that it shouldnt be used for 1/4 or standing mile results in raw form. i also dont like the idea of mathematically altering the results by"correcting/standardizing" them.

 

The two tuners who asked me are especially interested in slope correction. Of course that makes sense because they want to compare as much apples-to-apples as they can. I also understand many drivers such as yourself may not like slope correction -- especially if you've found that perfect spot to run. But ultimately if the list is used to compare performance instead of collected items for personal gratification, then slope correction would be very nice to have, or at the very least list both side-by-side.

As for excluding vBox from 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, and standing mile...I don't get that at all. I would rather trust a vBox program that's going to make the same calculations as NHRA and Texas Mile and do it the same every single time. I'd rather take the vBox results instead of the timing light mishaps from places like Sacramento some five years ago where the timing lights weren't in the correct locations and now we're stuck with +3 MPH trap speeds over anywhere else in the country (including ATCO) for the same car, same horsepower.

If you have some 1/4 mile timeslips and vBox files, you should upload your files to vboxtools.com and see how they compare to the actual time slips. I find them usually within a fraction of a MPH for trap speeds, and fraction of a second for ET. That should be good enough for a master list, and definitely good enough for people that don't live anywhere near a drag strip.

Just my $0.02.

 

Here's a sample of something I've been working on this weekend. I call it 'vBoxDyno' -- and as the name implies, it calculates a dyno chart from the vBox file. This particular example is from a bone stock the BMW F80-M3. There's still one more calculation to add before I'm done -- adding losses due to wheel inertia. Everything else is in there already: slope, aero, acceleration, wheel friction to the ground, etc. Wheel inertia losses are the only thing remaining to add.

The blue line is the calculated WHP, and the axis scale is on the far right.

 

Please add me to the "other" cars for 60-130mph

Fastest Alpha 12/GT35 based turbo GTR on the street or strip so far.

Topspeed built AMS Alpha 12 GTR, 4.4 liter, Motec, E85, ran on the street. 2.79 100-200kph, 3.22 60-130, slight uphill!!

 

60 to 130 mph PB today in cooler weather and nice -1.98% downslope





82F, full tank of gas, one dog and me, downslope, 3rd-4th gear run with power shift (not my usual Nanna shift)

Fuel E20 or so
RWD
3450 lbs or so (maybe 3400)
Stock K24s
Larger injectors and FBO except for WGs, ICs and DVs

 

Guys,
Member Changster sent a file over from his Topspeed built 4.4 liter Alpha 12 GTR on E85. The run is a blazing 3.22s 60-130!!
Congrats!!!