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Upgrade from k16/gr2860rs worth it?

 
  #31  
Old 02-12-2012, 09:32 AM
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What is this k1639? What is that composed of? Will that wheel fit in the TIAL housing I have?
 
  #32  
Old 02-12-2012, 09:49 AM
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If I remember correctly the billet 20g wheel flows 54lb. I can't 100% recall if I heard that correctly.
 

Last edited by PAULIEWALNUTS; 02-12-2012 at 09:52 AM.
  #33  
Old 02-12-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingGuy View Post
What is this k1639? What is that composed of? Will that wheel fit in the TIAL housing I have?
Its now the domain of Ken at Nine Excellence. i wanted more power, I know the right Turbo builder ( I should , been in the Turbo game for over 25 years) . Put the 2 together and the outcome is the K1639. Ken has full GPS verification and Durametric logs for proof. design 911 were there doing an article on my car as the Turbos are so groundbreaking over here.
apparently I'm the fist UK car with any sort of K16 turbo to top 200 mph on that specific testing ground using any type of fuel let alone pump fuel.
http://www.nineexcellence.com/

I know for a fact there doing some plenum and blow through testing using big big IC's and hope to beat my times......boooo

Oh yes , the Tiptronic Torque sensor in the mKB box is reading 900nm / 665 ft lbs torque.
 

Last edited by Sunnyside; 02-12-2012 at 10:00 AM.
  #34  
Old 02-12-2012, 10:03 AM
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200mph over what distance? Stopped to 1 mile? or just any amount of distance to get to 200?
 
  #35  
Old 02-12-2012, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by PAULIEWALNUTS View Post
200mph over what distance? Stopped to 1 mile? or just any amount of distance to get to 200?
On a 1.4 deg incline on an X RAF concrete runway within 1.4 miles.
Its all relative as I out ran a GT2RS and a K2418g car.
0-100 in 6.5 is not bad at all on pump fuel on a road that is going up hill. ( something to do with helping the Huge RAF planes take off )
Ken is confident that at a Vmax event the car is sub 7 seconds 60-130 again on UK pump fuel.
Also remember, I spent over an hour racing round the 4 mile circuit, reaching a consistent 197 mph . Then on the last lap after nearly a hours worth of racing I went for the 200.77 mph.
Imagine , if the car was cool what would be achieved. Kens philosophy is that you can take one of his power kits to Germany and sit flat out at 200 mph for mile upon mile with the knowledge that the IAT's and timing are running spot on.
As I said even comparing against other K24 cars these K1639's are truly awesome. You should e-mail ken and ask for more details as I dont get commission for selling his kits.lol
 
  #36  
Old 02-12-2012, 10:18 AM
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i'm going with the 20g's. Bens car did 200 mph in the TX mile event(from dead stop to a 1 mile dis) and I believe he did a 5.73 60-130.

It sounds like the turbos u have r pretty good for a k16.
 
  #37  
Old 02-12-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by PAULIEWALNUTS View Post
i'm going with the 20g's. Bens car did 200 mph in the TX mile event(from dead stop to a 1 mile dis) and I believe he did a 5.73 60-130.

It sounds like the turbos u have r pretty good for a k16.
They are, but......and that's the rub with E16 fuel who knows what we would get. The idea is duplicability. Fill up at you local fuel station with commercially available fuel and off you go.
I will be doing some more testing with 1.6 bar boost later to see if we can wring a bit more acceleration out of the car on pump fuel. We are only running 1.5 bar atm but Tod had tuned for 1.8 ota. Ken is very reluctant due to the huge Torque figures in the 5k rev band to up the boost any more on his commercially available kits . I think that's wise. Don't forget, all my figures and tune is not as a privateer, where you can take it to the limit. Ken has held back and been slightly cautious because he has to sell these Turbos as safe to customer after customer.
Ken was running the K2420g system and pulling over 200 in the measured mile. Every time he takes my car out, he cant get over the kick it has and the relentless pull for a K16 hot side turbo.
 
  #38  
Old 02-12-2012, 05:24 PM
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Guys,
While I applaud the K16 innovation, there is no "magic" compressor wheel thats going to own all the previous attempts. You're still limited by volumetric efficiency, RPM, and density ratio. Just because a turbo is capable of flowing some amount doesn't mean it will on your motor. Really the only thing you can change with a K16 based turbo (unless you get into extensive hotside mods) is density ratio (boost + IATs) so if your compressor moves what the motor needs at the boost level you want, and does so with relatively good efficiency, and you have good IAT control, a bigger wheel isn't going to do much. The key is finding out how much the motor needs -you can look at some bhp dynos and backsolve for VE and go from there to get an idea. The biggest difference between K16 hybrid variants will be the supporting mods on the car and octane. Don't make me get into data

Flyinguy,
Similar to Todd's rec, I would say get an EBC and a retune, fill her up with MS109, run 1.4-1.5 bar of boost and go get your 6 sec 60-130 and 10sec 130+mph 1/4 mile. Then lower it back down to 1.2-1.3 with pump +meth and enjoy the low end on your commute. I wouldn't even bother with a different compressor unless you fall drastically short. ..and I doubt you will as I've run 7 flat on my 16g car with 1.3 bar at 2600' DA on 94 octane...with a shift, with a slipping clutch. The 2860 is very similar to the 16g and we've got very similar supporting mods.

As for the talk of 1.6 bar on pump fuel with this K1639 turbo, look at the timing in the logs you posted at 1.4-1.5 bar. I cringe to think of what the EGTs are doing. Note the very jagged timing curve with dips down to 4 deg and 0.73 lambda AF ratios -this is the DME doing everything it can to hold the motor together. I would back it down to 1.3, just like every other K16 hybrid on pump gas.

My .02
 

Last edited by earl3; 02-12-2012 at 07:02 PM.
  #39  
Old 02-12-2012, 05:39 PM
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My 2860 runs 1.3 on 91 pump as well. There is a lot to be said about an everyday car that takes everyday fuel. I'm happy with 530 AWHP on a Mystang Dyno.

Time to buy some new cars and stop tinkering with this one.
 
  #40  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:24 PM
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Thanx Earl for that. It makes sense, no need to bust out the data! Haha. I look forward to seeing what a fresh tune incorporating the w/m on pump gas would do. And then a solid ms109 tune as well, whether or not I do a 2871. I'm sure the car could use a freshen up in the tune department as it is still running a basic GIAC/Evoms tune from back in the day. Todd has me excited with what extra he thinks he can get out of it, since tuning ideas and limits have changed since the early Evo700 days. I think I'll be hanging on to my housings either way. Might still get the 2871, since I have to retune, might as well get it all done and retune ONCE!
Ari, yes these cars are great with this boost threshold. I have eyed your car and your posts/threads for some time, and had even spoken with you about the current GIAC tuning. While that is not the route I chose to go, I appreciate your helpful attitude! Thanx again!
I hope to best my 7.39 (60-130) from today, very very soon. Thanx guys!
 
  #41  
Old 02-12-2012, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ari View Post
My 2860 runs 1.3 on 91 pump as well. There is a lot to be said about an everyday car that takes everyday fuel. I'm happy with 530 AWHP on a Mystang Dyno.

Time to buy some new cars and stop tinkering with this one.
Good advice,,but it seems to never ever stop,this forum doesnt help matters...lol.....
I thought I was happy before with my old tune/tuners peak numbers 540HP/600TQ on an AWD Mustang dyno with my K24/18gs with 93 octane....More time and more money to always make it better....What else would we do??
 
  #42  
Old 02-12-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingGuy View Post
I hope to best my 7.39 (60-130) from today, very very soon. Thanx guys!
If you get some MS-109 and a tune that takes full advantage of it, your car could be in the low 6s with everything else left the same, imo.
 
  #43  
Old 02-12-2012, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MBailey View Post
If you get some MS-109 and a tune that takes full advantage of it, your car could be in the low 6s with everything else left the same, imo.
Damn, that would be awesome. Hope to have some results soon
 
  #44  
Old 02-12-2012, 09:19 PM
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No $hit... neither do the damn magazines that show up by the dozen every month.

To be clear. I've decided that my car is done. I'm not telling anyone else to stop modding. IMO I got to a point of diminishing returns. The car had all kinds of aftermarket plumbing that while probably flowed better wouldn't stay together for more than few thousand miles before a boost leak would creep up. Although the car has NEVER left me stranded anywhere. I wasn't confident that I could go on a long trip and not be at least a bit worried that I needed tools or the possibility of a tow truck. It was eating away at the fun of having the car. Eventually I backpedaled on some parts (LWFW, Wevo Semi Solid Motor Mounts, EVO intake and a Y-Pipe) and the car doesn't feel any slower. Do i wish I had Alpha 28s? Definitely, but they were just coming out when I got my setup. That's life. I can't justify nor am I motivated to spend $5K on upgrading my upgraded turbos

Any "normal" person would say my car is off the reservation. Injectors, Hitachi MAF, water cooled turbos, intercoolers, silicone hoses, custom tune, handheld octane/boost switcher...Suspension..3 sets of wheels and tires, upgraded stereo etc... It's just on this board that it all sounds "mild".


Originally Posted by johnspeed View Post
Good advice,,but it seems to never ever stop,this forum doesnt help matters...lol.....
I thought I was happy before with my old tune/tuners peak numbers 540HP/600TQ on an AWD Mustang dyno with my K24/18gs with 93 octane....More time and more money to always make it better....What else would we do??
 

Last edited by Turbo Fanatic; 02-13-2012 at 01:51 AM.
  #45  
Old 02-13-2012, 12:04 AM
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The GT2860 even inside a K16 hotside is a nice turbo. Do not upgrade to the 2871. The 71mm compressor is a mismatch for the GT28 turbine. It will have much more lag. The 71mm compressor works best on the GT30 frame. The Tial 68mm compressor is the best match for the GT28 turbine for your car. More flow and quicker boost response. Although it sounds to good to be true it's one of the rare times where it is true.

If I were you I would order new GT2868 CHRA's from Tial. The bearing cage design has just been updated by Garrett to eliminate the plastic cage in exchange for metal. Not knowing how much life is left in yours this is a safer bet. I would also get the newest Garrett .60ar compressor cover that normally comes on the Tial A28's. I estimate the cost to be around 3k.
 

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