Meth safety, boosting, power adder
 

Hi guys,

I was considering at some point to add meth to my setup, some tuners and really big hp guys advice me to skip meth and use just race gas instead.

So speaking about benefits and cons of meth we might say a lot, lowering IATs being one of the best things to do for our engines.... I'd like to limit discussion just to meth as a power adder and safety of meth in this scenario.

To go straight, is there any safety procedure in place from any tuner to lower the boost from ECU when a failure (flow sensor basically) from meth device is detected ?

All meth guys are you running a simple on/off like meth application or a progressive one ? When ECU has info from Meth device turns boost up by 0.2-0.3 bar ?

I have to admit in case of meth safety implemented at ECU level I might change my mind regarding meth into 996tt, using 3076 there is a huge improvement turning boost up to 1.5+ bar and meth can do the job easily and very cheap ( MS109 here is like 40$/gallon !!!! )

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. Same turbos etc...

I just finished installing an Aquamist HFS3 system in my car. My tuner is going to run 10 degrees more timing in the mid range and 6-7 degrees up top with the 100% meth. After we do some runs with that, we can look at raising the boost up from 1.3bar.

Apparently it's going to be night at day compared to my crappy 91 octane up here in canada.

I was going to run the AEM kit with a progressive boost trigger to start at 4psi and flow full at 16psi. But the horror stories of AEM leaking with 100% meth turned me to the aqua mist.

I'm running this kit off fuel injector duty cycle. I have the THRES at 30. Which starts to spray at 3000rpm with load. And I pumped my gain full until we do some fine tuning.

As far as failsafes on this setup. If there is too much spray it will shut off, same if there is too little pressure or low fluid. And it will kick the boost down to waste gate pressure also.

I'm no expert in this field, but this is what I've learned in the last couple of days.

I can chime in a little bit here, as we have tuned some cars utilizing water-methanol and straight methanol injection. Your best bet is always race gas, because it is predictable and consistent. That being said, I certainly side with those who are not willing to foot the costs of constantly running race gas.

We typically run the water-methanol on our 100 octane race file, as this file isn't overly aggressive in the instance that fluid flow stops. While you won't usually have a nozzle or line clog that sends you from 100% flow to 0%, there is the possibility of low flow events. In such an instance, the ECU will be able to take corrective measures and pull the necessary timing. As long as all of your knock sensors are enabled and functioning, this won't be a problem.

We have run up to 100% methanol on some of our big turbo Porsche's, but I would stick to a 50-50 mixture for safety.

I ended buying a HSF4 from Aquamist and i am going to use 2x1.2mm jets and using greddy profec2, i still have some questions :

- how do we set up fail safe with greddy ? wiring just to the Ecu or to the greddy too ? I have the wiring diagram even for hsf4 and i see a brown cable saying WG/GN dont know how should i use it

- If going to use injecting by IDC and if my OBC shows very low fuel consumption, that means that ECU takes into consideration a very low injector duty cycle ? should i get this fixed ?

How much boost are you able to run on your turbos (pls specify turbos) using racegas map but on pump+meth ? I am looking for 1.6-1.7bar if possible from timie to time and 1.5 bar for daily use

thanks

Following with interest.

I have only had my AEM kit on my car for a week but I love it so far. I could see how you could have issues with this or any meth kit. There is a lot of room for error. I installed my kit and took my time to ensure everything was perfect. Running the lines to ensure that there is the least amount of tight bends and that the lines are far away from moving parts and heat is tough. I also soldered and heat shrunk all of the wires. I pressure tested the lines and tank to ensure there wast any air leaks.

I have a tank sensor and I start spraying at 7psi with full spray at 15. I also only use distilled water as AEM suggests. Tap water has sediments that can causer clogs and possible leaks.

I need to data log the meth so that Markski can play with the boost and timing. But as it stands, the car is a beast with the meth and it even sounds more aggressive.

I just realized that I didn't really answer your initial question. Ignore my rambling

seems i haved found a way to connect greddy profec2 and other ebc to a progressive controller of meth like aquamist, this is from aquamist web site from another car running EBC:

You can cut one of the wire to the solenoid valve from the "profec b2". Preferrably the pulsed leg. Splice in the brown (valve side) and white on thw "profec b2" side. No need to use the black.


__________________

Aquamist has taken most, if not all, risk out of meth use with their safety's. You must connect all the wiring correctly to the ECU to have all these safety's function correctly. You can adjust the settings and gain on the dyno or on the street. Once you set them, forget them. You can run off boost level, or Injector Duty Cycle. Most prefer IDC. I ran mine with great success for a coupe of years. Also, my 93/meth tune was only about 15-20whp down from a full MS109 tune on the same dyno on the same day.

In case of flashed ECU+AQUAMIST is simple, just have to follow the standard wiring diagram, i was looking for a ECU+GREDDY+AQUAMIST integrated with failsafe ON

As greddy controls boost over the n75 i think we have to wire the greddy too and in case of a failsafe from Aquamist to cut boost even with the greddy in place, and i did some reasearch and have found a honda s2000 with a greddy and aquamist that uses this trick to integrate a simple boost controller


Some newer boost controllers that might have a failsafe input can do the job without this trick, hks evc6 seems to be one of them

I thought a lot of guys are using greddy+aquamist(or other WMI systems with failsafes), where are you ?!?!


Now talking about safety and meth ... as we can not control the level of meth/cylinder and just injected into the TB we can not speak about safety, the safety as i see it is DONT PUSH YOUR LUCK(read BOOST) with METH, keep it a step under the maximum level, keep an eye on it, implement all the failsafes possible, take your time during install, verify the system from time to time, at least for a stock ECU

Yep. Take your time installing your kit and plan for every possible problem you think may arise.
I ran 1.1-1.2 with no meth and 1.3-1.35 with meth with more timing. I was never able to get my boost over 1.3-1.35 or so, even though I tried. Picked up a TON of power with my 18g's.
I checked my spark plugs often and tested my oil twice. All was good. I even looked through a Snap-On camera scope at my cylinders in year 2 of meth use and everything looked fine.
Pump/Meth is like race gas, so you can run your max boost all the time. I never used an EBC or MBC. I ran 1 boost level and let the stock ECU protect me.

I hope for a clean install in the end, almost done, looking for 1.5+ bar with my setup, will see from logging where the limit will be

The injectors will come into the Ypipe tomorrow, the newest and biggest injectors i have found at Aquamist - 2x1.2mm, i bought also the special hose for lines and used also a metallic hose for even more protection, yes i know i am nuts about safety with these things... i had a leak in my 335i and since that i am like Papa from Vatican


In the meantime i got an answer from Richard at Aquamist for my scenario

"It does matter what controller, you just need to splice and cut in the white and grey wire, as in the original drawing.
Make sure you cut and spice into the "pulse to ground" wire."

the diagram
 

HSF3
HSF4
HSF6

working for all of the above

Next step is to fine tune Aquamist to inject by injector duty cycle