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gt3 RSR front end on wide body 996?

 
  #16  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:51 PM
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EDO







 
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2013, 08:05 AM
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Totally Digging

Mad Ness,

I am totally digging this thread. My car is 90% track duty and I would love to get the aero and grip benefits of these packages.

I did call one of the International companies and their kit delivered to the US with the big wing is approx. $30k (converted from prices in Sterling).

Keep the options coming
 
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by joe731 View Post
Mad Ness,
I am totally digging this thread. My car is 90% track duty and I would love to get the aero and grip benefits of these packages.
I did call one of the International companies and their kit delivered to the US with the big wing is approx. $30k (converted from prices in Sterling).
Keep the options coming
joe731
I looked 3 years ago for a wide body front end option for the 996tt but at that time not many options. I've run out of things that I want to do to the car so here I am again.

Here's an interesting article (with cool pictures), gives a bit of background 996gt2R's and why they are relatively less common than 996gt3RSR's. By way has led to less options for us looking to create some kind of street/track hybrid.
http://archive.dailysportscar.com/su.../teams/psi.htm

After scouring through days of photos, forums on the topic, it doesn't appear much has changed. For my own perspective, I've summarized the wide body market for 996WB cars into 3 sub categories.

- Race keeping with 996 theme (EDO, VAD, DP Motorsports, 911design-DP M. distributors) Custom based off P.Race factory kits)
- Race 997 Conversion (EDO, Custom based off P.Race factory kit)
- Show / Super wide custom metal bodies (Wicked, techart, and many others)

Am most interested in the first category, keeping with the 996 and motorsport/functional performance orientated theme. Here are my findings so far:

Genuine/Copy GT3RSR kits widely available - Lots of custom work to get headlights, proper functional ducting, street legalities, etc. Rear end quarters and rear bumper require a lot of work as this kit is meant for a NBgt3.



Genuine Porsche xxl lemans series RSR kit - Never seen one in person but from the photos, this kit appears much wider. In terms of custom work, guessing the front to be similar to gt3rsr kit. However this kit provisions larger rear fenders and rear bumper suitable for the turbo. No copies that I know of available for this kit.


"I'm Lovin it" Looks like this GT2R has used the same side radiator ducting method as the matte grey 996/997 gt2RSR conversion from earlier posts.

Ideally one could commission a race specialist to completely rebuild the car as available in link below. Believe most of the high-end offerings are kits based off genuine carbon-Kevlar Porsche Motorsport parts.
http://nine11design.com/racing.php

Another example of kit based of XXL kit, my guess is this is a VAD customer. Notice the fenders are much wider.

The DP motorsport based kit is the wildest. Hood scoop and extended rear tail. ball$ out.


There's what I believe to be an earlier version of the GT2-R Biturbo kit with out the over fender flare look but subtle bulges insted. A lot of recently created cars use a blend of both.


I prefer the smoother looking bulge as pictured above. Barring "RSR" kits mentioned above as a base, there are a few companies offering OEM looking and modestly wider front ends.

GMG's WCGT2 kit is probably well known to most in the 6spd community. Apparently 2 width sizes for the front fenders (1.75" or 1.25") Same 2 cars found online (black and blue) since kit first came out in '07, so won't repost photos here. Note the WCgt2 bumper is wider to accommodate the fenders but not sure if solutions for functional ducting and wheel liner are provided if the kit is not installed in house. Here's the link to GMG's aero section on their website: http://mail.gmgracing.com/porsche_aero.shtml

Couple photos of a similar looking wide front fender option on a race car. Believe GMG's WCGT2 front fender was based a race part similar to one below: This car is for sale btw http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/po...51011116ss.htm


DP Motorsports advertises a similar wide GT2 type kit called Cup/GT2 EVO. Link is in previous post. Unfortunately no luck in finding additional info or photos of cars with this kit online ... would probably help if I was literate in German.

Interestingly a company based in CA called AIR (American International Racing) advertises a full wide body GT2 type style kit dubbed "AIR 996 twin turbo" http://www.americaninternationalraci...259246&page=80

It's 1" wider (than turbo stock) on each side for 2" wider total. Matching 2" wider gt2 style bumper. Don't know if matching lip/ducts are available from manufacturer. Most interesting part of this kit is the turbo specific rear quarter panels and IC air duct extensions. A wider 2" rear turbo bumper is available as well which means this Kit offers a non-metal solution for the rear.



No additional info can be found... nor photos of cars with kit installed online. This company does a lot of motor sport body work for pre-996 cars, founder passed away a 2-3 years ago but someone has taken over, they're based in CA. A truly viable alternative if still in production and reasonable quality. Will be contacting them for more info.

Finally find below link to the (RSC) racing sports cars website which has a archive of 996 Bi-turbo race cars. Nice variation and collection of kits used between 2000-2009. Pretty neat. Some of the earlier kits follow regular turbo bumper styling. Other kits are bits and pieces from 993 RSR kits... LOTS of different GT2R biturbo race cars photos on file!
http://www.racingsportscars.com/type...0Bi-Turbo.html
 
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2013, 04:59 PM
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Wow!

Wow! Lots to dig though here. Thanks, and let me know if you pull the trigger on something, and I will do the same.

Best,

Joe
 
  #20  
Old 09-10-2013, 06:39 PM
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The whole 996 GT3RSR kit should be about $7500 . It is tried and proven kit . I can direct you to forum sponsor that can supply it.
 
  #21  
Old 09-12-2013, 09:55 AM
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RSR ducting

in order to retain proper radiator function with the RSR bumper, major custom duct work is necessary. For the center, it would make sense to make top grill air exit gt2 style upgrade at the same time. For the side, need to make custom ducts and brackets to re-angle the radiators so that air can get in and out of the right airways. photo is from a 997 but you get the idea.
 
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2013, 11:24 AM
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Have you guys searched Getty's website? He has a lot of stuff that is very similar to the pictures above for a fraction of the cost. I think he has the whole GT3R it on there. I like the more stock look with functional performance gains. You can fit cup undertrays to the TT that increase DF and add brake cooling (ask me how I know ).
 
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Old 09-13-2013, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy View Post
Have you guys searched Getty's website? He has a lot of stuff that is very similar to the pictures above for a fraction of the cost. I think he has the whole GT3R it on there. I like the more stock look with functional performance gains. You can fit cup undertrays to the TT that increase DF and add brake cooling (ask me how I know ).
HeavyChevy
Yes have been on Getty's website (been in contact with mark). Complete offering clearly detailed on their site and believe they are one of the better kit manufacturers. They do the GT3 RSR kit but the parts are meant for a NA NB race car. Hence no provisions for street headlamps, signals, ducts for both front bumper, quarter panel for IC, exits at rear bumper to name a few - all these items would have to be custom.

Starting to lean towards the more OEM looking WB kits. These utilize gt2 style bumpers which makes things a lot easier.

Do share on the cup under tray... Was looking at gt3 brake cooling ducts that attach to lower arms.

Some more inspirational photos. I wonder what the ducts over the top of rear quarter panel feed air to. can see the engine from the rear window. 2 orange tubes connected to the rear side window ducts feed intakes.

be interesting to see a factory 2 seater 911 come standard issue with a rear hatch instead of a small deck. would certainly make working on the engine easier.




 
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  #24  
Old 09-13-2013, 02:20 AM
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RS Autosport Build

some photos of body work process inside:

 
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Old 09-13-2013, 02:30 AM
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MNess-- are you sure 996 RSR parts by Getty are designed for narrow body-- did you ask that specifically? The RSR is widebody from factory-- so by designaton if labelled RSR it should be for wide body--I would definately discuss that point specifically to get it clear.
The French white car above--has neat duct flair fit( like the AIR parts listed above). I have seen this done like that by custom alteration--unless AIR is like that and available (?) -- doing it yourself or getting it done is not a huge job. Any adaptation of RSR to Turbo will require this mod to0 get good looking fit.I think the ducts on white car and some others in photos are German Zimspeed.
Making any of the race car type parts will always require a degree of custom fitting for street car use-- but with good f/glass guy and oem parts to copy the fit from -- it should not be to costly to get all the little things done/
 
  #26  
Old 09-13-2013, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Red 9 View Post
MNess-- are you sure 996 RSR parts by Getty are designed for narrow body-- did you ask that specifically? The RSR is widebody from factory-- so by designaton if labelled RSR it should be for wide body--I would definately discuss that point specifically to get it clear.
The French white car above--has neat duct flair fit( like the AIR parts listed above). I have seen this done like that by custom alteration--unless AIR is like that and available (?) -- doing it yourself or getting it done is not a huge job. Any adaptation of RSR to Turbo will require this mod to0 get good looking fit.I think the ducts on white car and some others in photos are German Zimspeed.
Making any of the race car type parts will always require a degree of custom fitting for street car use-- but with good f/glass guy and oem parts to copy the fit from -- it should not be to costly to get all the little things done/
Hi red_nine
Re: whether the gt3rsr kit specifically for the NB chasis, no that's my own speculation. I know for a fact there's a wider RSR "XXL Lemans" kit available from Porsche motorsports and similar versions available from DPMotorsports/zinspeed. The front ends for both kits should involve similar works to fit. My assumptions focus on the rear of the GT3 RSR kit. the fact that the shape of quarter panels on the WB and NB are distinctly different, and hence quarter panel over fender can not be shared. grafting an IC air duct in compounds the issue.

If I am understanding correctly, you are saying the base chassis of factory Porsche gt3 RSR's are wide bodys? if so you may have a valid point.

None of the gt3RSR rear bumpers I've found have the IC outlets. A rear bumper meant for a NB and WB could not be the same width by default of the WB being wider - which I took as anecdotal evidence that these weren't meant for turbo WB cars.

Notice some conversions utilize GT3 style rockers. The rear quarters over fenders are designed to match the rockers and the rear bumper. All of the readily available gt3 rsr kits (incldng getty's) are of this design. turbo WB cars with this rocker are likely gt3rsr turbo conversions.

Regarding the AIR kit, yes it's a full kit included extended ducting with matching flares and rear bumper - For a WB turbo chassis. I suspect however this isn't a copy of the "XXL lemans" body work because the AIR fenders are only 1" wider each side.

Having said all this, I agree, the gt3 RSR kit will fit. Plenty of examples of it being used turbo cars. but tolerances on fit/aesthetics on a street car are on balance much more stringent and thus the rear over fender flares/rear bumper would require a good dose of attention in (specialized man hours) detailed body work to get rite. Take a look at the rear body work on the white french rsautosport car (from earlier post), can see gaps from 10 feet away...

noticed in nearly all examples the extended IC ducts utilize a screw from exterior to hold it in place from the outside, which lead me to believe it's not a modified stock one. Can't comment on zimspeed's air duct as can't find it but would assume if a manufacturer is going to go to trouble to make an extended duct (for use with an over fender) that the overfender flare + bumper would be offered in conjunction. Besides all out race kits (which cost 20kUSD and up) as of yet have found only AIR to offer a non-metal a rear solution for turbo.

Here's an example of the duct on what I believe to be an "XXL" style RSR kit. appears to be standalone piece. seriously doubt this would fit to a stock fender? anyways great option to add onto the gt3rsr kit route.
http://www.kokeln.com/996_ram_airduct.php


zimspeed offers several RSR kits. my assumption here again, at least part of reason for doing so is the difference between NB and WB chassis.
http://zimspeed.de/produkte/zs96/

ZS96RSR (note no IC intake duct + bumper IC outlet ducts are decals only) https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7023406&type=3



ZS96XXL (note much wider and includes necessary ducts for IC both on quarter panel + rear bumper) https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7023406&type=3




zs96gt2 (this bumper is a GT2 version of the RSR bumper - first I've seen like this - nice... notice the rear wingstays have inlets like gt2/turbo deck/wingstays have that NA versions don't) https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater


Now this is what I call a wheel liner solution... wow - drool



All in all so far my conclusions can be summarized as such:
for an OEM looking wide body kitwhich requires significantly less custom ducting work - GMG and AIR are options.

for the RSR hardcore route - Porsche motor sport and several other vendors offer variations on both the gt3RSR and the XXL gt2r kit.

A compromise between the two above is to use the gt3RSR front with the AIR rear end.
 
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  #27  
Old 09-13-2013, 09:28 PM
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Note above--yellow car has the wider(bigger) side intake duct set up(like AIR)--the white car a few up--is stock set up and less intrusive onto flare area.
Re price of kit--- $7500 should cover quality kit of RSR--then adapt it. As far as the rear bar goes-- simple put oem type vents in it(I have seen exactly that on 996 RSR and 997RSR--but have never tracked a supplier.The advantage of RSR bar--it matches flare area properly.To incorporate intake ducts is not a huge job to do custom--and it looks much neater--like it was oriiginal!!
A body guy who used to do work for me always asked--is it FRC quality? Or road car?( FRC= F;;;;;;;;g Race car)-- so always understanding what you are trying to achieve is important.In any of these projects my personal strong preference is to stay as close to factory in look as possible-- I like it that way and when selling it is more likely to appeal to others looking that way.

ps--- white car a few up has a turbo rear bar and not the RSR xtion down onto bar.
ps2 -- the advantage of kit from one source is that the various parts should work together eg sideskirt set up
 

Last edited by Red 9; 09-13-2013 at 09:32 PM.
  #28  
Old 09-14-2013, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Red 9 View Post
Note above--yellow car has the wider(bigger) side intake duct set up(like AIR)--the white car a few up--is stock set up and less intrusive onto flare area.
Re price of kit--- $7500 should cover quality kit of RSR--then adapt it. As far as the rear bar goes-- simple put oem type vents in it(I have seen exactly that on 996 RSR and 997RSR--but have never tracked a supplier.The advantage of RSR bar--it matches flare area properly.To incorporate intake ducts is not a huge job to do custom--and it looks much neater--like it was oriiginal!!
A body guy who used to do work for me always asked--is it FRC quality? Or road car?( FRC= F;;;;;;;;g Race car)-- so always understanding what you are trying to achieve is important.In any of these projects my personal strong preference is to stay as close to factory in look as possible-- I like it that way and when selling it is more likely to appeal to others looking that way.

ps--- white car a few up has a turbo rear bar and not the RSR xtion down onto bar.
ps2 -- the advantage of kit from one source is that the various parts should work together eg sideskirt set up
thanks for the info Red9... I agree with a bit of planning and attention to detail, a clean install is doable. good point on the air duct. If you look on the AIR IC ducts it's 2pc,I believe the smaller piece fits where the duct and fender meet.
 
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:21 AM
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Just thought of another point--the panel below rear windscreen(above/in front of engine cover) is different width on turbo and GT2--- compared to all GT3's( incl RSR).
Not expensive to buy factory either way--but needs to be considered in doing change.The biggest relevence is that the kit I would use ( Revozport) included tail and wing( actually makes kit look cheap( that is inexpensive!!). So-- another decision in that.
I have a tail I was planing on using--- it is actually Turbo engine cover modified to GT2 tail( with air intakes) that incorporates RSR uprights to support RSR wing-- all done on trying to stay as close to factory "look". I never used it as plan is to go to 997 now.
 
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Red 9 View Post
Just thought of another point--the panel below rear windscreen(above/in front of engine cover) is different width on turbo and GT2--- compared to all GT3's( incl RSR).
Not expensive to buy factory either way--but needs to be considered in doing change.The biggest relevence is that the kit I would use ( Revozport) included tail and wing( actually makes kit look cheap( that is inexpensive!!). So-- another decision in that.
I have a tail I was planing on using--- it is actually Turbo engine cover modified to GT2 tail( with air intakes) that incorporates RSR uprights to support RSR wing-- all done on trying to stay as close to factory "look". I never used it as plan is to go to 997 now.
yea good point. Already using a mashaw 63" cup topwing on a gt2 style (air ducts on wingstay) deck lid. Not nearly as tall or wide as the turbo RSR one but it'll do.
 
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