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1000th Suspension Thread - Trying to condense info

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Old 04-30-2015, 06:10 PM
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Trying To Condense Suspension Info - Help Appreciated

Ive spend the past couple days searching as much as I can for suspension information on this forum and, now that I feel I have some ideas, I wanted to make sure that I got everything right and to get some opinions.

I will (finally) be taking possession of a 996TT sometime in the next week or so. My plan for the car is to keep it pretty stock (I know I know, everybody says that) but to make some minor tweaks here and there to make it fun. I am likely to only do autox for the first year or two to get to know the car and its limits in a safer environment. Due to this, my first thoughts will go towards the suspension.

While this thread originally started out trying to get an opinion on a particular setup, I feel that it might be good to compile all recommendations and reviews I have found into one place. Though the typical response is "Get V3s or PSS10s", I wanted to give people a resource as budgets and expected usages can vary from person to person. I would like this to be as unbiased as possible from those that actually use the products.

The Supporting Actors:
Great informational thread about the various parts - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...treet-car.html
Dogbones - From what I gather, many have said that dogbones are not needed unless deemed necessary due to not being able to align normally. Lowering the car does not automatically call for them to have to be used. However, others have stated that you can use aftermarket dog bones instead of adjustable toe arms to have a correct alignment.
Reference Thread - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ogbones-2.html
Droplinks - Needed if dropped very low. Not automatically needed if slight/moderate drop
**NOTE** - There have been some issues with Tarret front droplinks binding and bending when installed with coilovers. This was initially reported with the Ohlins DFV but may also occur with other company setups. Link: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...g-bending.html
Toe Arms - Recommended for a car that will be lowered with aftermarket wheels. Ive seen a couple threads where toe is the main reason for premature tire wear and issues with handling after an aftermarket suspension is installed. From what I have gathered, a 996T can be lowered on stock wheels without the need of supporting components but, when you throw aftermarket wheels with different widths and/or offsets on the car, the stock components may not be able to compensate to get a proper alignment.
GT3 LCAs
- Not 'needed' but a very good upgrade for lowered cars that are tracked.
Anti-Roll Bars - An upgrade that can enhance a lowered suspension. Not required in conjunction with a lowered car but can help to maximize the performance increase.

Again, this is based upon the knowledge that I have had with other cars and from reading on here. I am looking for opinions to refine or confirm/deny.

Shocks/Springs - Typically this is where I tend to see a lot of shoot the moon recommendations. While coilovers are ideal simply due to the fact that the shocks/springs come matched from the manufacturer, this doesnt mean that someone will see any difference between a $1500 shock/spring combo and a $5000 coilover setup if they are not using it to its potential.


Shock Options:
Rebuilt/Revalved Stock Bilsteins (NO) - Unfortunately, the 996 version of Bilsteins are not rebuildable due to them being a pinched design. This was confirmed by Elephant Racing that has a very good history of rebuilding/revalving shocks for older PCars for track use.
Koni Yellow - The Koni Yellow Sport kit (shocks and springs) can be purchased directly through Koni NA. At times they have a 25% off special running. (Cost $1600 or $1200 with special)
Koni Gold FSD - This is the non-adjustable Koni shock for those that want to keep the stock suspension feel of the car. They can be purchased directly from Koni NA. At times they have a 25% off special running.
Bilstein HD - (in process of getting information)
Bilstein Sport - (in process of getting information)
Bilstein MO30 - These are the shocks that are used for the X73 Suspension package. If you are looking for a OEM setup with a much more aggressive setup then these are a good choice. (Cost $1800)


Spring Options:
H&R - By far, these are the most common lowering springs that have been put on the car. There have been many members that have been happy with this setup using stock shocks though many recommend upgrading your shocks to a set that is designed to handle the stiffer spring rates and decreased travel that a lowering spring will give you. There are some reports of the car feeling 'floaty' and 'unstable' at higher speeds but others have said that this might be due to alignment. Some have said that adding a set of sway bars will help the car feel more planted. (Cost $300-$350)
Reference - 2yr Review - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...pressions.html
Eibachs - I have not seen many reviews of the Eibach springs as most typically use H&R when going this route. Will update as I find out more
RUF - I am still searching for more reviews to get a general consensus but, from what I have read so far, the RUF springs add a little more performance to the car compared to an H&R setup. If the spring rates are indeed higher, it would be recommended that shocks be upgraded with this setup as it would put much harder loads on the stock shocks than they were designed for.
Reference - Comparison - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ks-anyone.html

Coilover Setups:
KSports (Adjustable) - Member Review - Honestly, they are not bad and are 85% of the way to being great all around.
(+) Much better ride quality than stock (even though the car is much lower). Good overall handling and road feel.
(-/+) This one could go either way but I honestly think they have too much adjustability to get them dialed in properly.
(-) The 15% bad comes with driving the car hard through corners that have imperfect road conditions. If the suspension is under compression in the corner and you hit a bump or dip, it somewhat unsettles the car which is not confidence inspiring. I have since changed the preload and dampening some more but doubt it will eliminate this altogether. I need another spirited run to know for sure since you can't tell under normal driving conditions. Reference - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post4344673
Reference Thread - BC/KS - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-question.html
BC Racing (Adjustable) - The only detailed thread I could find pretty much lumped KSport and BC together and the claim was made that they are the same product with just a different brand name attached to them. While I couldnt find much on them, I did find reviews of the product with other higher end cars. There was a great detailed review on NSXPrime that listed them as solid coilovers that are good for occassional track days. It was also stated that they are rebuildable and can be revalved (cost stated in thread was $95 per unit). These units also seem to be compatible with Swift Springs for custom rates. Seems to have good reputation with NASOIC guys as well. Again, nothing really reviewed for the 996T though.
Reference Thread - BC/KS - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-question.html
Reference Thread - NSX Prime - http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...hensive-Review
H&R (Non-Adjustable) - Seem to have gotten mixed reviews about the full coilover setup from H&R. Most agree that it is a good setup for mainly street driven cars that wish a lower stance but comfortable ride at or slightly below GT2 ride height. Not much in reviews for track usage. (Cost $1800-$2000)
Reference Post - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ny-good-3.html
Reference Post - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...tml#post363232
Reference Thread - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...996-turbo.html
Bilstein PSS9/PSS10 (Adjustable) - Widely regarded as a very competent street coilover but not slightly on the soft side for race applications. These coilovers are rebuildable.
Ohlins R&T -
See note about Tarret Drop Links and Ohlins DFV above
JIC CROSS (Adjustable)[/B] - Very few companies carry this suspension in stock these days. Will update with reviews when I get them in. (Cost $2900)
KW V1 -
KW V3 (Adjustable) - By far the most recommended mid level race coilover on the forums.
Moton -
JRZ -

**NOTE**
One of the things to be aware of is that not all coilover setups are going to come with tops for the fronts. As the 996's are over a decade old, it is suggested that you build replacing these into your budget. There are two options here.
OEM - These are recommended for street driven cars. They will have more play in them but are quiet
Monoballs - These are a race product. They will give the suspension a much more solid feel but they come at the price of chatter.

Alignment: Once you have your car lowered, a good alignment is key to get the best feel out of your setup and to save your tires. There is a great thread that lists some recommendations which can be found here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...k-junkies.html

Thank you for reading my book. I will edit the OP as info comes in an will try to condense some other threads that I find.
 

Last edited by su_maverick; 07-02-2015 at 10:46 PM.
  #2  
Old 04-30-2015, 08:34 PM
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So, you got the parts you want, now how do you put them on your car? This work in progress will help get you there.

First off, here is a good thread about doing your own coilovers. Expect it to take about 6-8 hours of work and a lot of swearing. Make sure to read up on the tools and parts you will need for it
DIY Coilover Thread - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...read-pics.html
DIY Coilover Thread for H&R Coilovers - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...all-notes.html

Putting The Front Top Mounts Together (Confirmed For H&R and Bilstein Coilovers) - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-rotating.html

Supporting Characters

Drop Links DIY (unfortunately missing pictures) - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...rop-links.html

Feeling crafty? This thread details what you will need to make your own set of dog bones and save a little bit compared to what vendors are charging. The hardest part seems to be sourcing the correct metric misalignment bushings.
DIY Dogbones - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-dogbones.html
DIY Dog Bones 2 - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-budget-2.html
 

Last edited by su_maverick; 12-11-2015 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 05-01-2015, 07:57 AM
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Any help with personal reviews or links pointing to other's reviews would be greatly appreciated. Im also trying to find a thread I read recently where forum member Engine Guy was giving some great info on alignment specs for lowered cars.

Thanks!
 
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:55 AM
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Nice write-up. Got my 996t with H&R lower springs and the car just felt stiff. I cringed every time I saw a crack in the road ahead. Just installed KW V3s about a month ago. Different animal but now I have full control of ride height, rebound, and compression settings as well as the ability to have them rebuilt (I believe the price I saw was about $150 per)

BTW: look up Motons as well. More race oriented but they do make a 996 race/street setup

Edit: Toe links are a must in my book if you tend to accelerate hard. If you're going thru rear tires like water (hitting the threads on the inward side at or around 6-10K miles), the toes stop the car from "squatting" on launches that is tearing your tires apart.
 

Last edited by sshrum; 05-01-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 05-01-2015, 11:05 AM
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Ohlins R&T coilovers are also a solid option.
 
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sshrum
Nice write-up. Got my 996t with H&R lower springs and the car just felt stiff. I cringed every time I saw a crack in the road ahead. Just installed KW V3s about a month ago. Different animal but now I have full control of ride height, rebound, and compression settings as well as the ability to have them rebuilt (I believe the price I saw was about $150 per)

BTW: look up Motons as well. More race oriented but they do make a 996 race/street setup

Edit: Toe links are a must in my book if you tend to accelerate hard. If you're going thru rear tires like water (hitting the threads on the inward side at or around 6-10K miles), the toes stop the car from "squatting" on launches that is tearing your tires apart.
I havent finalized all the options as of yet but I will definitely include the high end race setups such as Motons and JRZs. This all came about because I was trying to do searches on the different types of options for the car and found that people kept asking the same questions over and over again and not much real information would be dispersed. They would just get "Buy PSS10s" or "Buy KW V3s" but never really say why.

Also, I wanted to get some information put together regarding all the other stuff that needs to be done with the suspension as its never just as people believe. Im still trying to find that alignment thread... that thing was gold.
 
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Old 05-01-2015, 12:25 PM
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"Buy PSS10s" or "Buy KW V3s"

Yeah...I saw that a lot as well on my research. Seemed to me the majority of ppl are split between these 2.

Went V3 as a got a deal on a set that was barely used.
 
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:49 AM
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Looking to get some more information regarding what is needed when you upgrade your suspension and what would be an 'upgrade'

From what I can tell, most coilover setups do not come with new topmounts. Are the options to go with new rubber OEM ones or monoballs? What are the plusses/drawbacks of both?

Thanks!
 
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:29 AM
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OEM for DD car. Monoballs if you want GT3 teeth rattling suspension. My latest installed has OEM top hats with Ohlins, Tarret drop links F/R , and Eibach rear sway and that has firmed up ride and added a little bit more of chatter noise. I've driven a GT3 car with monoballs and while it sticks like its on rails, not something I want to drive here where I live.

And here's one on the Ohlins discussion:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...g-bending.html
 

Last edited by rxbike; 05-14-2015 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:36 AM
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Are the GT2 Coilover included as a Shock Options, or are these assumed under the stock / revalved stock bilstein??
 
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by gclasse
Are the GT2 Coilover included as a Shock Options, or are these assumed under the stock / revalved stock bilstein??
To be honest, I am not sure. I believe I heard that the GT2 uses a M030 Bilstein shock but I am not sure if it is rebuildable or not. Im sure someone will know better than me. I will update the original post when I find out.
 
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:24 PM
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I asked because my impression is that 996 GT2 coilovers can be rebuilds / revalved.. i'm mentioning it as you can also consider them!!

Originally Posted by su_maverick
To be honest, I am not sure. I believe I heard that the GT2 uses a M030 Bilstein shock but I am not sure if it is rebuildable or not. Im sure someone will know better than me. I will update the original post when I find out.
 
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:00 PM
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excellent post and very informative. i think many folks overlook the oem options vis a vis suspension, most specifically the x73 kit as well as what i run, h&r sport springs with MO30's which are an excellent mid level compromise btw oem floatiness of the stockers ( junk yet porsche oem good junk ) and a coilover setup even the marginal gt3 sets.

MO30 with gt3 sways and a couple of extra little bits that have proven to work VERY well together are a tried and true and highly viable *mid level* solution for those not wanting to have to f*ck with rebuildable and "wearoutable" lol coilover setups!

i am biased because that is what i run with and what works extremely well for me and my daily usage, but admittedly not a good "putt around town" setup ( too stiff ). it aint "stock" that's for sure. but i may soon opt for a full coil over setup if/when i finish my rwd conversion if in fact i ever do. where i'm at is fine actually as is, again, for my intended use
 
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:14 PM
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I think the main issue with the MO30's is actually finding them. Im somewhat tempted to give the BC's a try just for giggles to see what they can do. Especially since they can be revalved and use Swift Springs which I am a huge fan of.

But, if you decide to sell your MO30's I might change my mind
 
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Old 05-14-2015, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rxbike
OEM for DD car. Monoballs if you want GT3 teeth rattling suspension. My latest installed has OEM top hats with Ohlins, Tarret drop links F/R , and Eibach rear sway and that has firmed up ride and added a little bit more of chatter noise. I've driven a GT3 car with monoballs and while it sticks like its on rails, not something I want to drive here where I live.

And here's one on the Ohlins discussion:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...g-bending.html
Thanks, will add this to the OP
 

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