996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

New clutch

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  #61  
Old 10-12-2015, 04:26 PM
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I'm not sure what data you want? By double clutch/rev-matching the input shaft speed to the desired gear's shaft speed the synchro no longer has to speed-up or slow-down the shaft to mate the gear, it has no work to do and therefore doesn't wear.
Talk to anyone who knows how a manual gearbox works and see what they say...


Originally Posted by 32krazy!
do you have any data for this claim? the syncros only job is to match the gears together so they don't grind which is what double clutching does. by doing it twice you aren't saving them but actually working them more since they did their job the first time they were engaged.
 
  #62  
Old 10-12-2015, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 993GT
I'm not sure what data you want? By double clutch/rev-matching the input shaft speed to the desired gear's shaft speed the synchro no longer has to speed-up or slow-down the shaft to mate the gear, it has no work to do and therefore doesn't wear.
Talk to anyone who knows how a manual gearbox works and see what they say...
double clutching and rev matching are 2 entirely different things. i guess we will have to agree to disagree. after 2 million miles driving straight cut gears with no syncros in everything from a 7 speed to a 18 speed double over to a triple stick mack i think i have a concept of how a manual works
 
  #63  
Old 10-12-2015, 06:55 PM
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i rev match to dbl clutch, and didn't intend for it to be a debate, but for once it isn't my ( non ) argument lol.

i learned it from steve mcqueen. would that help?
 
  #64  
Old 10-12-2015, 09:40 PM
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you don't necessarily need to rev match the final 'step' (engine speed to driveline speed, but you should try) but you are matching the first step/clutching and that's why even non-synchro boxes sync during a shift without crashing gears...this is the whole point of double clutching, to rev match the input speed with the desired gear speed
We may just have to agree to disagree.
Cheers,


Originally Posted by 32krazy!
double clutching and rev matching are 2 entirely different things. i guess we will have to agree to disagree. after 2 million miles driving straight cut gears with no syncros in everything from a 7 speed to a 18 speed double over to a triple stick mack i think i have a concept of how a manual works
 
  #65  
Old 10-13-2015, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 993GT
you don't necessarily need to rev match the final 'step' (engine speed to driveline speed, but you should try) but you are matching the first step/clutching and that's why even non-synchro boxes sync during a shift without crashing gears...this is the whole point of double clutching, to rev match the input speed with the desired gear speed
We may just have to agree to disagree.
Cheers,
this is all actually ( and not surprisingly ) all true. in fact, if done properly, theoretically one can shift using this method without even requiring the second engagement of the clutch at all, as the point of the rev match is as you have already stated, to match the gear speed(s) and if "properly" achieved, one can shift without using the clutch MORE THAN once ( gear OUT ) without any resultant grinding of a gear. but there is no point in "testing" this but it is true though.

it's an old crash box trick, and should theoretically "work" the same with any manual box.
 
  #66  
Old 10-13-2015, 07:26 AM
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I have see more than on trans explode using the crash method during track/street racing but yes it can be done and have done it myself when young. I rev match and believe it saves much stress but I see that is another debated subject.
 
  #67  
Old 10-13-2015, 04:01 PM
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I had a clutch mechanism failure in another car once a couple hundred miles from home. At a stop I started the car, pedal down, in gear, clutch was ENGAGED. To shift I'd let off the gas, pop it out of gear as the driveline went slack, rev it, and drop it into gear as the revs matched - clutch never disengaged. Stop lights were interesting, I'd let the car in front get out then start it in gear and catch up. By rev matching the synchros received minimal wear and I got home. If the two shafts are at the same speed properly things just work but I sure wouldn't recommend it lol!
 
  #68  
Old 10-15-2015, 07:27 PM
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