the only negativity comes from the vendors who apparently rely on peoples ignorance to how their product is made. i merely pointed out the obvious to me and db carbon gets sorely butt hurt and their responses prove it.

and honestly your disappointment comes from finding out the vendors were doing a wrap not true c/f. prior to me telling you this you were completely fine with dropping 100$ or more for a cosmetic part you thought was true c/f

 

Yes. Its all good either way though. Ill still be getting some in the near future.

 

I'm a little confused... Do people think the leather trim is leather through and through?

The leather on there is actually as thin as a piece of paper. The CF trim has a much greater durability than the OEM leather pieces and it does actually reinforce the strength of those pieces (regardless of whoever does the wrapping).

 

Yeah - right question, that´s why this is an useless discussion.

Seems only one member means to "know" everything and can´t stop spamming this thread with any personal feelings or whatever. Nobody wants to hide anything or makes any complot

The original question Gberg996 asked is answered in detail, that´s what this forum is for - thread closed.

 

sorry you dont get to dictate the "closing" of a thread. only the moderator or the o/p can do that. as for spamming i dont see anywere that you specify that this is a "wrap" and not true carbon fiber. the o/p originally asked where he could get c/f pieces not a knock off or replica piece. this was proven by his post about being "disappointed" when he found out it wasnt true c/f. you seem to be very fond of the term "useless" maybe thats why you continue to deflect the fact that you dont make true c/f pieces at all. so i guess calling what you do a wrap and not c/f isnt spamming after all.

and i would have to disagree with simple c/f material and a clear coat reinforcing the base piece. if that were true the porsche pieces wouldnt peel off and delaminate over time. until that piece is put under pressure and the resin forced thru the fibers theres zero rigidity added and is merely cosmetic. SO DB-DESIGN-GROUP do you use an autoclave in your process? i highly doubt it

 

If you were to look at the SunCoast parts website, you would see "Full Leather" trim advertised. It doesn't say "wrap" anywhere. Most people realize this is how trim is made.

I have been covering trim (and other stuff) in CF for over 5 years now and I have yet to have anything de-laminate - and I don't have an autoclave either. I am pretty sure the autoclave is only required for pre-preg CF in order to activate the curing process. The process I follow (and I suspect DB Carbon as well) is to impregnate the CF with a two-part liquid resin and apply to a properly prepared base part and allow the part to cure over time. The clear coat is required to cover the CF with UV protection so it does not change colour over time.

I would not be so quick to accuse the vendors here of misrepresentation just because they didn't specify all of their particular fabrication details.

 

i never did. i merely pointed the fact out to the o/p that the vendors he was going to use werent making true c/f parts. its db carbon that got their panties in a wad. as for the autoclave it sucks all the air out of the plastic wrapped piece so the resin is forced into and thru every fiber. thats were the strength comes from.
what you are essentially doing is covering the fabric with a resin and while it may harden it doesnt penetrate the way an autoclave would force it to do. hence the large difference in price. and porsche interior pieces are famous for coming apart. the vents and dash trim in articular since they receive a large amount of sunlight

as for leather if the piece is wrapped in leather over say for instance foam its still leather wrapped as its purpose is to cover the panel not strengthen it. in regards to leather the quality is in the leather material used ie: napa leather vs pleather which is a far inferior material. thats were the cost difference comes in to play.
of course none of the interior parts are made from true c/f its a cosmetic piece. but the o/p wasnt aware of that. but i ask you do you think the front decklid from a gt3 rs is a wrap or true c/f?

 

Autoclave heats the parts, vac bagging is what pulls oxygen out and removes voids. Not the same thing but often one precedes the other if the part requires heat curing - not all c/f does but structural pieces or pieces where lightest weight is desired usually do. I wouldn't expect trim to require heat FWIW.

 

We clearly describe that on our start page, about us site and at our lifetime warranty box.
Wouldn´t we provide an lifetime warranty on our work if we don´t know what we do since over a decade?
OEM parts and most others are more than problematic, but there are a hand full of quality manufacturers out there.

Seems most clearly understand, some just try to find an issue w/o detailed background knowledge why and how those parts are made those ways and which amount of work stands behind.

A nice weekend to the community

 

An autoclave is definitely not required to produce high quality carbon pieces. An autoclave is required for producing complex pieces from pre-preg (CF pre impregnated with resin requiring heat to cure). A more simple (flat) shape can be produced to exactly the same standards with regular resin (cures at room temp) and vacuum bagging. For a completely flat piece such as the batwing, even a hand-layup Can be used to produce parts to the same standards by an experienced composites person.

The main advantage of using pre-preg in an autoclave (or vacuum bagging/oven on more simple shapes) is consistency in the layup (no "voids" in the material containing only brittle resin and no CF) and with this consistency an optimal ratio of resin to CF. This creates the strongest, lightest part possible.

These are not characteristics required of the batwing.

Visible CF is purely cosmetic. Anywhere. From full carbon pieces manufactured in an autoclave or OEM parts covered in CF.

The problem is that epoxy resin is not UV stable. The best method of protecting the epoxy is with paint. But since that negates the pretty, visible CF effect, clear coats with UV filters are used. The problem here is the same that we have at the beach, though: a sun-screen also contains UV filters but if you spend enough time in direct sunlight you'll get burned this way or that. This is why even the OEM CF interior parts look like poop after 15 years. Since then there have been advances in materials, but we will see what parts made today look like after 15 years of exposure to the sun.

Steve, your posts above - above all #12 - do insinuate that db or ma are somehow fleecing their customers, be it through low quality parts or high price. I don't know if there is standardized terminology, but a wrap (in my mind) is sticky, plastic film. Db and ma are doing overlays. These require a LOT of work to be done properly. Not rocket science work, but diligent sanding, coating and repeat. Prices for parts with a wood overlay are similar - and have almost nothing to do with the price of the (exotic) wood veneer.

 

I dont insinuate anything. I say it outright. If you arent laying c/f material into a mold and making a part that is made of c/f its a wrap, overlay call it what you want its a replica of an actual part.

Rolls royce uses real wood in their cars chevy doesnt. May look the same but it isnt. Simply because they cover with resin clear coat it sand it doesnt make it any more real.

Would you consider a c/f gt3rs hood and a turbo hood with an "overlay" to be of the same quality and strength? Or a wing of c/f or fiberglass with an "overlay"?

 

Absolutely right - here is background knowledge!

But, we should give it up - some people means to have it and will not change their mind. That´s fine, just too bad that this is posted senseless on the forum.

 

I don't know anyone (including Porsche) that makes true, full carbon fiber pieces for the interior. They're all wraps/overlays, whatever you want to call them.

 

exactly my point. with the exception of a shop on rennlist who builds dashes seats gauge clusters most anything from custom molds in true c/f. they build almost exclusively race parts

 

Even Rolls Royce doesn't use full wood panels anymore. They use thin wood veneers - just as Mercedes, Bmw, Bentley, etc, etc. And Porsche. More or less the same as we are talking about here.
No, but in contrast to a batwing, there is a real opportunity to save weight with a CF body section.