Likewise here... I have owned 4 P cars and 2 other turbo charged cars... they all had MBC .... absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I have an evo that runs 44 psi with a MBC and never blew a motor...
respect the way you use the MBC.. dont be stupid. we are not 18 year old kids boosting silly PSI...
Yes it would be nice to have the boost controlled via DME... but as of now I only know of 1 tuner doing that.
BTW, I was told by a Evoms good customer that they now put MBC on there built motors... I personally know of 4 Evoms high HP cars that have them as well. Again... nothing wrong with that. Im not signaling out Evoms or anyone else... just showing that this approach is being used by others as well.
just my opinion,
markski

 

I resent that!

jk

 

That's just it, Markski.

In our business, that can get you in trouble.

Not all of our clients are as savy as some of the guys on 6speed. They may not know what can and can't be done.

They are not under the hood of their car every weekend. They don't know what afr, egt, maf, map, mbc, duty cycle, open/closed loop mean....

Most of our clients want a bolt on kit that they never have to worry about. They just want to put gas in it and go.

Plus, RCNJ is not 18 years old. He is an intelligent and informed car enthusiast. Yet he still, in my humble opinion, risked hurting his motor by running too much boost.

Hell, I don't want readers to think that I'm anti-horsepower. I just have strong opinions on how to develop a kit that is user friendly to a mass market.

I also get worked up when reading unsubstantiated hype. Hence my comments about some of the hybrids.

 

I respectfully disagree that the K16/24 hybrids are "all hype." I assume you feel that it is the K16 turbine that is flawed in this setup. The current EVO GT700 turbos use K16 turbines. They have a lot more "steam" than you give them credit. For a specific application the K16/24s are perfect, as are K24s, GT3076Rs, etc.

 

A DME controlled Boost is certainly the best (reliable) option as it will provide a long term safeguard for the engine. This will not deliver however the best results in a quartermile car since you cannot "push" boost as much as you want, the DME would pull it back. All these cars running 1.5 bar+ would never get there with the Motronic alone. For a track car, I doubt fixed boost will deliver better results, set it at 1.3 Bar and your engine will melt after a few laps in an enduro race environment, whereas a DME controlled car will pull boost back and forth depending on conditions and temps. Each application has its pros and cons. Quick and short straightline performance can be better achieved with a high boosting DME override setup obviously, not for long though. It is all about choices.

Fixed boost does not necessarily mean you have a MBC, it can be wastegate controlled via the springs and actuators. I did not have an EBC initially yet running the same program. Basically, the boost will not fluctuate up and down depending on conditions, it will simply stay at the maximum value or close to it, whereas a DME controlled boost can go up and down quite a bit across the RPM range.

There are many tuners running DME controlled boost, but they will not be the fastest quartermile cars, they will be long lasting though (>60k miles?). Just as a fixed controlled boost setup mapped by a good tuner and if used by a reasonable driver behind it, can last just as long, the risks are higher though.

 

I don't 100% understand your point, so I will try to better explain explain mine.

A K16 spools early, but flattens out up top. A K24 spools later, but has more power up top.

Saying a combo of the two spools like a 16, but has more top end than a 24 is ludicrous. It does not work that way.

Running a 16 turbine with a blah blah blah compressor may work for some applications, but that's not what I'm talking about.

You want 600hp, buy a K24. There is going to be more lag than a 16, but that is just the way of the world.

Did that make sense?

 

Well put, Jean.

 

I agree with your points. If a K16/24 car has more top end than a K24 car, it is not because of the turbos.

I disagree that they are "all hype" though. They are excellent for street and track applications where low end torque is desired. Plus they can still lay down 500 to the wheels. On top of that, you can get them with tuning for under $4K! What is wrong with that?

BTW Mike, I do have mucho respect for you and AWE. You guys do great work and you give input into the forum. It is really nice to have a tuner (hope you don't mid the word) posting here.

 

Belive me, this conversation is only going to educate. Remember, there are TONS of folks that read but never post. This interaction is all for them. The respect is back at ya!

Your comment about the 500 to the wheels is where I have to disagree. We have never seen a 16/24 hybrid do that on our dyno. That was only ever done with K24's. The hybrids would make more than a K16, but never more than a K24.

This is why we need to have a dyno day this spring...

 

Mike, just because YOU havent seen it on your dyno means it is not possible I assume? With all due respect, that is an arrogant assumption. Kevin

 

Count me in! The folks over at AWE always show the best hospitality and I always get an education...

 

KPG, I have every right to be arrogant. We have been dynoing VW's, Audi's, and Porsche's since 1999. We've almost seen it all.

I'm just calling it like I see it.

 

Thanks, Alan.

It's always a pleasure having you around.

 

Mike, you seem like a decent guy and I really dont want to argue with you, but the question still remains. Just because you havent seen it on your dyno....does that mean it is impossible? The reason I ask is I have dyno sheets, trap speeds and 60-130 times that show otherwise. To date I have yet to see any straight K24 post better times than mine....So, I guess I am just calling it as I see it Cheers, Kevin

 

Hear!Hear! Or is it "Here!Here!?"