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Pors-Vette 08-14-2013 10:01 AM

What's better?
 
There seems to be a consensus that purchasing a 996 with low mileage is better than buying one with high mileage. What are your thoughts on this?

I realize that purchasing a Porsche is a major decision. Expensive repairs. Breakdowns (IMS/RMS). From what I've read and heard, only 1%-5% of 996's, 1999-2002 will encounter a IMS failure and it can occur at any time with or without warning. Doesn't it make sense that a high mileage 996 that never had the IMS replaced, vs. a low mileage 996, would be the logical choice to buy? And by high mileage I'm saying 80k miles and up. There are some owners who only drive on weekends and most not more than 3k miles a year. I don't see the logic in that anymore because I used to be one of those owners. I know it's by choice that they're garage queens and I'm not knocking their choice but I cannot understand how someone can spend so much for a vehicle just to have it sit in their garage. It's not like it's going to be a collector item someday, there are too many of them sold. I drive to enjoy! That being said, I'm ready for any-and-all negative comments. ;)

996_911C2_Dhru 08-14-2013 10:40 AM

My personal experience. In July 2010 I bought a 2002 C2 with 16,000 miles on it for $29,500. Silver with Dark Blue interior and most importantly a 6 speed manual trans. It was owned by a 68 year old guy that only drove it to he golf course and back. In 8 years they drove it 2,000 miles per year. However he drove almost every two days. So there are two different types of low mileage cars. The 16,000 car that is stored for 3/4s of the year or the 16,000 driven lightly all year. I have the latter. I've since put 10,000 miles on it in 3 years. In looking at classified ads, I've barely lost any money on depreciation. The only repairs I've had were replacement of the ignition switch (DIY) $14. Big picture my wheel bearings, struts, brakes, wheels... virtually everything on the car is as new. My only concern area is the IMS. I decided to just suck it up and drive the car and not worry about it. I may buy the IMS Jr. since it is cheap insurance.

At that same time I could have probably bought one with 60k MORE miles on it (e.g, a 76k mile car) for $20k back in 2010. In the 3 years it would have had about 90k miles on it. I bet it would be worth $17k or so and I am sure the windshield (due to sand blast), AOS, struts, wheel bearings and who knows what else would have needed replacement. The seats would have bolster wear, the front end would have chips on it. To make the car look cosmetically as nice and to keep up with repairs I bet I would have spent the same $29,500. The difference? What is mine worth vs. the high mileage one?

You almost need to plot mileage vs. price on a scatterplot and find the sweet spot.

My only regret is not finding one with more factory options on it. The resale value for options is terrible so you can find one with $20k in options for just slightly more money in the used market. Mine is a C2 base with only the lightweight wheels (Carrera 2s). I ended up modifying it quite a bit to bring it to where I like it. 40th Anniversary appearance with the Turbo front bumper, GT3 sideskirts. Fully audio overhaul (Kenwood head unit with Nav/Ipod/BT, 4 channel digital amp, subs and 3-way components), Xenon lamps, tints, clear bra, debadge and PSE hack.

The key to any purchase is be educated and get a PPI. If the seller is open to waiting, I'd even get a blackstone lab test done on the oil. Heck I'd pay for an oil change just to take the filter apart. If it is full of metal shavings, tell the seller thanks for your time and enjoy your free oil change. And RUN! :) I bought mine sort of uneducated and was lucky to get a good one.

JB in AR 08-14-2013 11:17 AM

"Best" is the lower mileage car if it gets a clean PPI and negotiate all (about $2K) or part of the cost for an IMS retrofit into the offer, unless it already has one.

The Porsche Buyer's Guide by Excellence magazine is a great resource for just this type of question. They also compare the financials of leasing vs buying a Porsche, but this one doesn't apply to the 996/986 series. The new Guide was just released and examines the "weak points" of each model Porsche by year.

From what I understand, the biggest risk for most people in the market for a 996/986 and 997/987 series is the possibility of IMS failure in cars MY2005 and prior. Most of these failures have presented themselves in cars with relatively low mileage, so one school of thought would be to favor a car with higher, rather than lower mileage (or, of course, one with retrofitted IMS upgrade). It would be a ***** to buy a low mileage car and then have a catastrophic engine failure. At about $20K for replacement, this would more than likely put the owner financially upside down on the vehicle value vs combined acquisition and engine replacement costs. If you did go with a lower mileage car at asking price, bite the $2000 bullet and immediately get an upgraded IMS retrofit and a magnetic oil drain plug. (LN Engineering makes some that are lots better than the stock ones, I hear.) You might as well replace the clutch while the thing is opened up as well, if it's a manual tranny. If you do this, add on around $600 - 800 to the IMS upgrade, but it will save you bucks down the road doing it as a stand-alone.

For myself, I wouldn't buy any Porsche or other premium foreign car (especially European ones) without paying the extra bucks for a good, transferrable, comprehensive insurance plan that covers engine/transmission failures.

Dennis C 08-14-2013 11:49 AM

I don't think there is consensus on that point at all. In fact, I believe that most people who are familiar with the 996 would recommend one that has been driven regularly over a garage queen.

JSavinoJr 08-14-2013 01:50 PM

I agree,I bought my car because it had been a driver.I got my car with 60,000 miles and it now has 92,000. It's a 99 and I have not had the IMS bearing done. From what i've heard the 99-01's have a different style IMS bearing then the 02 and up. Which is probably the reason that 99-01 owners are not included in the IMS Class Action Law Suit.

carrera4slakem 08-18-2013 10:51 PM

I prefer the higher mileage. For the most part, the necessary replacement parts have been done to get it to where it is. Lower mileage is nice but when your talking about a 10-13 year old car. Low mileage means nothing to me, except that the car has been driven short periods of time not letting the engine to be heated up and driven properly. Also a car that just sits around eventually have seals that dry up from non use. I am actually more scared of low mileage cars because of that reason of "NON-USE." Have you tried aging and just jumping up and trying to do something athletic without warming up or stretching...it does not feel good...lol. Now imagine your garage queen Porsche 911 doing the same...just a little sarcasm at the end.

jzarrabi 08-18-2013 11:26 PM

I don't know that there will ever be a definitive answer as there are too many unknown variables involved to say one way or the other for sure. Personally, I purchased the vehicle in 2010 with 16k miles on it and now i have 31k. I think regardless of mileage a PPI is key to purchasing. I think with a clean PPI and the cleaner interior/exterior (mine was pretty much brand new) getting a lower mileage vehicle is the way to go.

Dennis C 08-19-2013 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by JSavinoJr (Post 3916328)
I agree,I bought my car because it had been a driver.I got my car with 60,000 miles and it now has 92,000. It's a 99 and I have not had the IMS bearing done. From what i've heard the 99-01's have a different style IMS bearing then the 02 and up. Which is probably the reason that 99-01 owners are not included in the IMS Class Action Law Suit.

You're right about the different bearing design. The MK I cars have a double-row bearing and the MK II cars have a single-row bearing. That being said, my independent mechanic told me that he has seen far more failures on earlier cars, especially Boxsters. I think the age of the vehicle is the reason the earlier cars weren't included in the lawsuit. My 2002 C4S was technically included in the class action suit, but it had already passed the time limit when I received the letter. It doesn't really matter though because I didn't experience an IMSB failure.

RWDC4 08-19-2013 08:59 PM

I paid $30K for my '99 with 50K miles on it - but it also had easily 20K in upgrades (Aero kit w/ MKII wing, wheels, full suspension, Tubi Style exhaust, X51 oil pan. The car you want is out there - just keep looking.

As far as the "low mileage is somehow bad" voodoo BS that is going around the interwebs, I'm not buying...

denversteve 08-19-2013 10:45 PM


Originally Posted by Dennis C (Post 3916234)
I don't think there is consensus on that point at all. In fact, I believe that most people who are familiar with the 996 would recommend one that has been driven regularly over a garage queen.

Exactly. If you read the multitude of threads on problems you will see that problems are much more prevalent on ultra-low mileage 911's rather than those driven regularly and even hard. These cars do not do well sitting around.

feroz928 08-21-2013 05:05 PM

I do not believe in monthly payments, since I am self employed and have been for almost 30 years. I decide how much cash I can afford to spend then shop for the car that fit my criteria. Four years ago I purchased my 2000 996 C4 with 107K miles on the odo. The PPI was done by a well known SoCal Porsche mechanic who gave the car a clean bill of health. The car now has 133K miles and I have not had any serious problems with the exception of regular maintenance or anticipated upgrades. The most important thing is to try and anticipate any possible problems and correct them before they become serious. You have a very nice car and if you take care of it, it will take car of you:D:D

AA717driver 08-22-2013 01:56 PM

I'm looking for my first 911. I'm checking out an '04 with 60k mi. this weekend. I do feel a little more comfortable with a newer car that has been driven.

But, I still won't step on a crack in the sidewalk due to potential injury to my mom...;)

TC


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