997.2 Turbo vs GTR
#61
11-29-2009, 12:38 AM
If people keep buying Turbos at MSRP (as they have been), what is Porsche's incentive to lower the price? They have none, and are pricing it according to free market principles of supply vs. demand. One thing to keep in mind is that it was reported last year that Nissan loses money on the GT-R. I have no doubt that Porsche makes a fat profit on the Turbo.
#62
11-29-2009, 02:27 AM
No it doesn't. This test shows that (according to this German magazine) stock for stock, the GT-R is better.
I reckon a Turbo on Pilot Sport Cups and ceramic brakes would be faster than the GT-R, but there's no way these two cars should even be that close in the first place: it shouldn't come down to tires.
It's better if trunk space matters, and points are given for stuff no one who buys a Turbo cares about. No way the two cars should be that close? Those Dunlops make up several seconds over street tires. It really NOT close. The GT-R gets abused without them.
The point is, let's focus on the cars and the handling, acceleration etc. And the Turbo is clearly better at all of them.
This magazine test is like old best motoring videos when the J-spec cars got R-comps and everyone else got crappy old worn out tires. The Turbo does not need ceramic brakes to beat the GT-R, not even close.
You keep saying this, but do you have any real proof?
-C&D picked up 3-4 seconds in the lightning lap by going from Bridgestones to Dunlops
-Randy Pobst Drove the R888 and Dunlop to the same exact time
-Some guy in australia did the same thing
-BOTH liked the Dunlops balance better
-The R888 sidewall could not hold the weight of the GT-R up and the grip is similar, making the Dunlop the better tire for the GT-R since it's runflat
.
I reckon a Turbo on Pilot Sport Cups and ceramic brakes would be faster than the GT-R, but there's no way these two cars should even be that close in the first place: it shouldn't come down to tires.
It's better if trunk space matters, and points are given for stuff no one who buys a Turbo cares about. No way the two cars should be that close? Those Dunlops make up several seconds over street tires. It really NOT close. The GT-R gets abused without them.
The point is, let's focus on the cars and the handling, acceleration etc. And the Turbo is clearly better at all of them.
This magazine test is like old best motoring videos when the J-spec cars got R-comps and everyone else got crappy old worn out tires. The Turbo does not need ceramic brakes to beat the GT-R, not even close.
You keep saying this, but do you have any real proof?
-C&D picked up 3-4 seconds in the lightning lap by going from Bridgestones to Dunlops
-Randy Pobst Drove the R888 and Dunlop to the same exact time
-Some guy in australia did the same thing
-BOTH liked the Dunlops balance better
-The R888 sidewall could not hold the weight of the GT-R up and the grip is similar, making the Dunlop the better tire for the GT-R since it's runflat
.
So the fanboys can get it right, using this criteria and scale, the GT-R may be a better buy for some people, which is undeniable, but by no means does this test say it's a better car.
But I wouldn't expect you guys to understand that.
The GT-R chassis is whack, and without the help of extra grippy tires to cover the flaws, everyone would know it.
#64
11-29-2009, 06:16 AM
The Z06's weakest link is the tires, put it on ZR-1 tires and it would be as fast. The fastest stock ZR-1 1/4 mile is only a tenth (or less faster than the Z06). In back to back testing the ZR-1 has only been 2 seconds per lap quicker on better tires.
All of this has already been proven.
You lose.
All of this has already been proven.
You lose.
Oh god, here we get to the infamous stock ZR1/Z06 times. Without going into too much detail, whilst they're close on ET, the trap speed is nowhere near.
So what you really are saying is that GM could have forgot about the LS9, the CCB brakes, the suspension and the closer ratio gearbox and just gone with different tyres? In fact you're saying that GM actually made the car worse and only the tyres made it look better? This is some good stuff. Please invert yourself before addressing us any further.
#65
11-29-2009, 06:17 AM
Funny watching the fanboys grovel.
The GT-R needs R-comps to keep up with the Turbo on street tires. In fact the R8 would have beat the GT-R too if they were on equal tires. GT-R = overrated,
Dunlops = Underrated.
As I've said before it might as well be called the Dunlop/Bridgestone GT-R, because that's the only reason it's fast.
bye.
The GT-R needs R-comps to keep up with the Turbo on street tires. In fact the R8 would have beat the GT-R too if they were on equal tires. GT-R = overrated,
Dunlops = Underrated.
As I've said before it might as well be called the Dunlop/Bridgestone GT-R, because that's the only reason it's fast.
bye.
#66
11-29-2009, 06:21 AM
#67
11-29-2009, 06:29 AM
It's as much like the street car as any Porsche racer in a similar field.
A+ Good strawman, would read again. Bring F1 cars into the discussion. The cars most unlike any road out of all racing classes.
It's faster than a GTR in a straightline, some 15% faster now, proving that it has way over 500hp, yet it's still barely staying in touch on track and is way out on Slalom. It's plain to see that the car's layout doesn't do it any favours in the handling department.
Yep. I mean the car tested already has $8500 worth of go-faster stuff on it. PDK - $4.5k, Sport Chrono - $4k. Add Sport Cup Tyres and CCB brakes and you have added the monetary equivalent of a Switzer P800 upgrade to a car that's already almost twice the price. The GTR is way down at $75k without any options. None of the options actually make it any quicker either. For less than $160k you could have a Mines spec R35.
Yep. I mean the car tested already has $8500 worth of go-faster stuff on it. PDK - $4.5k, Sport Chrono - $4k. Add Sport Cup Tyres and CCB brakes and you have added the monetary equivalent of a Switzer P800 upgrade to a car that's already almost twice the price. The GTR is way down at $75k without any options. None of the options actually make it any quicker either. For less than $160k you could have a Mines spec R35.
Last edited by BD-; 11-29-2009 at 06:36 AM.
#68
11-29-2009, 06:32 AM
The GT-R is what it is...and it is not for me. Not spitting on the car BTW. One can't deny the bang for the buck factor.
Did it get any bonus points for electronic gadgets/wizardry?
#69
11-29-2009, 06:43 AM
Since when does the cost of a car have anything to do with being a BETTER car? The cost of the car has nothing to do with how good the car actually is yet is used as a basis for this test.
So the fanboys can get it right, using this criteria and scale, the GT-R may be a better buy for some people, which is undeniable, but by no means does this test say it's a better car.
So the fanboys can get it right, using this criteria and scale, the GT-R may be a better buy for some people, which is undeniable, but by no means does this test say it's a better car.
Originally Posted by heavycheerleader
But I wouldn't expect you guys to understand that.
The GT-R chassis is whack, and without the help of extra grippy tires to cover the flaws, everyone would know it.
The GT-R chassis is whack, and without the help of extra grippy tires to cover the flaws, everyone would know it.
If people keep buying Turbos at MSRP (as they have been), what is Porsche's incentive to lower the price? They have none, and are pricing it according to free market principles of supply vs. demand. One thing to keep in mind is that it was reported last year that Nissan loses money on the GT-R. I have no doubt that Porsche makes a fat profit on the Turbo.
#70
11-29-2009, 08:07 AM
You are so correct. When Auto Express ranked the gen. II Cayman S over the GTR, I was pleased but certainly understood I would accomplish nothing by posting it on NAGTROC. It has stirred up some stuff, but all in fun.
#71
11-29-2009, 08:26 AM
Myself, I could give a Rats A$$ what the magazine article said. Is it going to make you run out and sell your turbo??? I think not. I think the GTR is a cool car with it's own following and it's fast etc....everyone knows it's virtues. BUT in the end, it is not going to make folks run out and dump their P -cars to get one. It would be nice to have one along side the turbo actually but that is not within my reach, so I live with the fact that some stupid magazine editor said my car was #2 in their test....BIG DEAL! Jeeeze, now I have to live with the stigma that not only is my car #2 to the GTR, but it's also a tiptronic to boot!! LOL 
#72
11-29-2009, 08:34 AM
Do you not understand that more grip from tires will do far more than HP ever will. Take a stock Evo and add 100 hp, then take a stock evo and add slicks, which do you think will would be faster?
Trick question. But you don't really know anything so I wouldn't expect you to get it.
The REALITY of it is that you'd have a much harder time going faster by adding hp than you will by adding grip from the tires. 3-6 seconds is easy to get with tires, not so much with hp.
Let's delve into your track experience and see what kinds of tires you've driven on........
Trick question. But you don't really know anything so I wouldn't expect you to get it.
The REALITY of it is that you'd have a much harder time going faster by adding hp than you will by adding grip from the tires. 3-6 seconds is easy to get with tires, not so much with hp.
Let's delve into your track experience and see what kinds of tires you've driven on........
Last edited by heavychevy; 11-29-2009 at 08:36 AM.
#73
11-29-2009, 08:36 AM
Right on the money Swoody. I think BD is trying to get Porsche owners to dump their cars for a GT-R, which is never going to happen. Sounds like a desperate Nissan sales rep to me! In the end, there's a fan of one over the other or both, but you will never see Porsche owners "downgrade". If anything you'll see the exact opposite.
#74
11-29-2009, 08:38 AM
Beyond underscoring that I can't read German, I am not sure what the take-home message is supposed to be. 
The 997.2TT is faster and the reviewers chose the GT-R is about all I could figure out.
My friend has a GT-R and it is a great car but both he and I would rather own something different.
The 997.2TT is faster and the reviewers chose the GT-R is about all I could figure out. My friend has a GT-R and it is a great car but both he and I would rather own something different.
and i couldn't read that info as well
#75
11-29-2009, 08:44 AM
Funniest comment I've seen in awhile....+1
, that was funny.... that sums it up perfectly... Porsche lost because of trunk space....who needs it anyway, in a sports car, there is a little though....
