Break in Period
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I'll agree with you on one point. I have no idea how they test the current engines used in the 997.2 Turbo. However, the rumors that you speak of typically come from Rennlist members who claim to have inside information.
I can only confirm that during my factory tour, the GT1 blocks were shown on the engine dyno as I described above. Other members who have toured the factory will also confirm what I have stated. No rumors here.
I can only confirm that during my factory tour, the GT1 blocks were shown on the engine dyno as I described above. Other members who have toured the factory will also confirm what I have stated. No rumors here.
There are very strong rumors that all engines are NOT hot tested. It is strongly rumored that hot testing all cars ceased when the .2 911 was introduced, which includes the new turbo of course. 1 out of 10 .2 cars may be hot tested, which by no means removes the need to break-in an engine.
Supposedly (and again rumored), all GT cars are still hot tested: GT2, GT3/RS.
Rennlist had a very good thread regarding this very topic. There is Porsche inter-net data to support the hot testing theory, but Porsche is cautious above how they discuss the topic. It is also uncertain how old the data is.
Supposedly (and again rumored), all GT cars are still hot tested: GT2, GT3/RS.
Rennlist had a very good thread regarding this very topic. There is Porsche inter-net data to support the hot testing theory, but Porsche is cautious above how they discuss the topic. It is also uncertain how old the data is.
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What's so magic about 2000 miles? Since the break in used to be 1000 miles for years. And somebody needs to tell Porsche because they are taking brand new cars straight to the track at the Porsche Sport Driving School, those cars carry a full factory warranty. The 2000 mile break in is bullsh@t, take it easy the first 500 miles then go hard.
And I can see where this conversation will go next...the efficacy of changing your oil before 2000 miles...
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Why is 500 the number because it worked and nothing broke? 500 is simply an arbitrary number given by an owner. 2000 is the number the manufacturer uses. No, it's not a magical number that once reached means the engine is broken in at that exact moment, but it is an estimate. C'mon...
While you're on the topic of oil changes, I guess the intelligent thing to do would be to have a sample tested to learn firsthand if a change was needed then used for future reference.
Last edited by 911dev; Feb 22, 2010 at 01:41 PM.
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I'll agree with you on one point. I have no idea how they test the current engines used in the 997.2 Turbo. However, the rumors that you speak of typically come from Rennlist members who claim to have inside information.
I can only confirm that during my factory tour, the GT1 blocks were shown on the engine dyno as I described above. Other members who have toured the factory will also confirm what I have stated. No rumors here.
I can only confirm that during my factory tour, the GT1 blocks were shown on the engine dyno as I described above. Other members who have toured the factory will also confirm what I have stated. No rumors here.
The tour must have been impressive as well as informative, however, how do you know that all GT1 blocks or any type for that matter are hot tested? You saw some being tested but were you informed by Porsche, while there, that all are?
Last edited by bbywu; Feb 22, 2010 at 01:53 PM. Reason: sorry to edit, accidentally hit edit instead of quote and reply
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Nuts...I accidentally edited your post when I meant to comment. Sorry about that.
You are correct. I mis-stated "all engines" not realizing he had a 2010 997.2TT...My error
During the tour, we were told that all of the engines we were seeing dynoed were tested to confirm >100% specified HP ratings prior to installation. He neglected to tell us if this is true for all their engines, or only of the GT3 and TT engines that we were seeing (there were no GT2s in production at that time.)
I think there are several others here that have gone on the tour who will tell you the same thing.
I've already agreed with you (in my post you qouted) that the GT1 engines are hot tested. The .2 turbo is no longer a GT1 block, however, you state that all engines are hot tested.
The tour must have been impressive as well as informative, however, how do you know that all GT1 blocks or any type for that matter are hot tested? You saw some being tested but were you informed by Porsche, while there, that all are?<!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --> <!-- edit note -->
I think there are several others here that have gone on the tour who will tell you the same thing.
Last edited by bbywu; Feb 22, 2010 at 02:15 PM.
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That explanation doesn't make sense to me as it is technically impossible to "misalign" a cylinder without catastrophic damage through detonation, or conrod/piston failure...ie I call BS.
Last edited by bbywu; Feb 22, 2010 at 06:29 PM.
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Nuts...I accidentally edited your post when I meant to comment. Sorry about that.
You are correct. I mis-stated "all engines" not realizing he had a 2010 997.2TT...My error
During the tour, we were told that all of the engines we were seeing dynoed were tested to confirm >100% specified HP ratings prior to installation. He neglected to tell us if this is true for all their engines, or only of the GT3 and TT engines that we were seeing (there were no GT2s in production at that time.)
I think there are several others here that have gone on the tour who will tell you the same thing.
You are correct. I mis-stated "all engines" not realizing he had a 2010 997.2TT...My error
During the tour, we were told that all of the engines we were seeing dynoed were tested to confirm >100% specified HP ratings prior to installation. He neglected to tell us if this is true for all their engines, or only of the GT3 and TT engines that we were seeing (there were no GT2s in production at that time.)
I think there are several others here that have gone on the tour who will tell you the same thing.
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Your salesman doesn't know much about engines.
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The point is that, given modern technology and the development of the sort of metals/alloys used in modern engines, common sense is wrong.
That depends upon what you consider AS being "common sense".
Do you think that breaking in the Rolex 24 engines isn't done to optimize reliability.
To the best of my knowledge race engines are in many ways a totally different ball game altogether
.
I don't know anything about Porsches, (then surely it is in your own best interest to get to know the facts then?)
I've owned my 997tt for a month (its going to TPC next week for suspension and a flash). But I've road raced motorcycles (Ducatis, Kawasakis, Suzukis) competitively for years and learned alot about engine building, and my experience is that the best way to break in engines is as described in the link, and many knowledgeable engine builders will agree.
Opinions are like backsides, everyone has one but only the manufacturer knows what is truly best for their own products, afterall they've spent huge sums of moneys doing the R and D. My company's core business for the past 50 years is engines, engine remanufacturing, new components, engine component product failure analysis/diagnosis, dyno testing etc, therefore I am unable to agree with your thinking at all especially as you have failed to provide any manufacturers facts to support your claim/gut feel.
This is one of those subjects that reasonable people can disagree on, but that's part of what makes for an interesting conversation and makes it possible for gear heads like us to talk in the garage for hours over a beer.
That depends upon what you consider AS being "common sense".
Do you think that breaking in the Rolex 24 engines isn't done to optimize reliability.
To the best of my knowledge race engines are in many ways a totally different ball game altogether
.I don't know anything about Porsches, (then surely it is in your own best interest to get to know the facts then?)
I've owned my 997tt for a month (its going to TPC next week for suspension and a flash). But I've road raced motorcycles (Ducatis, Kawasakis, Suzukis) competitively for years and learned alot about engine building, and my experience is that the best way to break in engines is as described in the link, and many knowledgeable engine builders will agree.
Opinions are like backsides, everyone has one but only the manufacturer knows what is truly best for their own products, afterall they've spent huge sums of moneys doing the R and D. My company's core business for the past 50 years is engines, engine remanufacturing, new components, engine component product failure analysis/diagnosis, dyno testing etc, therefore I am unable to agree with your thinking at all especially as you have failed to provide any manufacturers facts to support your claim/gut feel.
This is one of those subjects that reasonable people can disagree on, but that's part of what makes for an interesting conversation and makes it possible for gear heads like us to talk in the garage for hours over a beer.
.No offense to you personally but as i said before in my earlier post; if you have any doubts enquire the "FACTS" from P AG Research and Development department and ask why does the owners manual state what it does. And no, this manual is not just for USA as someone recently suggested, my manual says exactly the same thing
.And in answer to the other thread;
Just because Porsche driving schools and new demo cars can cop a major flogging out of the box and still (generally appear to) remain intact serves as testimony of how resilient their product is under duress....and agreed P is number one on that!!...but I do doubt however that if any of these instructors or car salesman ever put their own hand into their own pocket to buy one of these P cars brand new that they would dish up the same treatment to their own car without allowing some preliminary running in process. Now that id like to see!
In other words... easier said than done.
Hilarios!!!!!Advice is often given but rarely taken..
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997turbos saleman has obviously identifyied in the sale process that 997turbo knew less than what he did (if thats possible going by this adjusting of cylinders nonsense)therefore has taken an opportunity to sound "clever" to 997turbo in a bid to convince 997turbo he is in good hands .
I can only imagine that if the salesman ever knew this tripe was going to one day wind up on this discussion forum he would have kept his mouth closed
.
.I can only imagine that if the salesman ever knew this tripe was going to one day wind up on this discussion forum he would have kept his mouth closed
.
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Here endeth the lesson...i hope.
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The oil change recommendation is 20K miles not 2K, so you can't have it both ways. For the record, PSDS cars are brand new cars taken by Porsche NA and run hard at the track, after a year they are sold with a full intact warranty by Porsche NA. The cars are meticulously maintained by the staff, much better than most of the lease turn ins you see at auction. The last car I drove at Barber had 115 miles on it. What's the significance of 2000 miles instead of 1000 miles?? Why the change?
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I don't see why you can't have it both ways. Porsche clearly feels its not necessary to change the oil until 20k miles. On the other hand, I'm really **** and I change the oil in my cars every 5k miles. I really don't care if its wasteful.