The Future: Clutchless manuals back to Auto's and Manuals to stay
 

Reading this article indicates Porsche may also be soon having to review their direction of their PDK's. It seems the latest technology is putting the fluid flywheel Auto box back into play as the faster shifting, and the manuals to stay....of course :D.
Check it out!

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...207-1aj01.html

so this guy from bmw is saying that its dct is slower than a steptronic? that can't be right. he also claims that dct is jerky which is simply not true.

"Twin-clutch transmissions offer excellent performance on the open road, but can hesitate off the mark and feel jerky around town.
Kretschmer hinted that BMW may drop its twin-clutch transmission from its M-branded high-performance cars, including the M3.
He says the company's new eight-speed automatic shifts more quickly than the seven-speed twin-clutch unit in the M3.
"At the moment, the only advantage of the twin-clutch is that it allows you to rev past 7000rpm," he says.

Yeh it seems crazy doesn't it. Its taken since forever to get the clutchless manuals into the market and now they want to kick em in the guts....relegate them into the history books. The new technology indicates the autos are taking back over though. There is evidently a significant breakthrough in the Auto for BMW to be changing out the DCT in the next M3 though. So I imagine Porsche would also be aware of the new technology. Who's to say what will happen....but its clear the manual is not dead. Kretschmer is obviously a key mouth piece for BM though so if he is saying the new technology Autos are better than their current DCT offerings then i imagine he's not talking through his backside. And to put one in an M3 over a DCT can only mean they are better, so where will P wind up?

The info comes from BMW ? Yikes!!!!

If one looks at the M3 inventory in the US the DCT comprises the huge majority of cars . In fact .. it's extremely difficult to find a manual with the other premium options . Even the 135 sport package is a DCT. DCT was not even a choice on earlier 135 cars.

In my opinion .. the article makes no sense . All of the modern performance cars (Porsche , Ferrari, Mclauren , Nissan ) offer double clutch .

Maybe BMW ought could take some time to improve their manual geaboxes because in my opinion it is the most sloppy shifting and has the most ill positioned gearshift I have ever seen in their M3 .

As for the 8 speed automatic ? Cost cutting ? Like run flat tires ? Or a flimsy interior ? Or even worse .. the "Bangled" cars ?

Hopefully the new 991 TTs will have the manual option. Its nice having choices. You never know, maybe the Auto option will be an auto and the shifting wont change being on the steering wheel. I like the 3rd pedal;).

I have to agree the whole thing makes no sense at all but i guess the next M3 will tell the story. They say the clutchless is a goner. And if this new technology is as good as they say and the box can shift faster and smoother then whos to know whats in store for the PDK. Afterall the future of all hi-po cars seems to be centered around fuel efficiency, emmisions and performance.
Where does it all stop?

Although I love my Panamera and it's PDK, it is at times quirky and jerky. Overall it is an amazing transmission, but it can be jerky.

Every DCT can exhibit hesitancy and jerkiness in the right situation. But DCT have a big advantage over torque converter tranny's and that's the amount of power they can handle.

AMG had to stick with the M-B 5sp for several years after M-B was using the 7sp because it couldn't handle the power. The V12 STILL uses the 5sp because of the amount of torque that motor produces.

DCT's will be around for quite some time to come and only get better and better. Just look at the strides Ferrari has made since they first started using them.

Yep, so i keep hearing. Its a great box with its own set of issues.

The jerkiness that may never be overcome and thats the main reason why Porsche kept away from releasing the pdk box up until they were satisfied....but its not perfect as most users find. When you consider the turbo tip auto can handle the same if not more power than the PDK its certainly possible they may ditch the pdk especially if the new auto technology provides faster shift times without the niggly jerky issues. Some may feel more manly that their DCT has an electronic clutch arrangement outside of the main transmission assembly but in reality both boxes are automatics. Its just one has the clutches outside of the box whereas the other has them inside the box. If shiftimes are now overcome then it could well be game over.

i have never understood the concern over the hard shift from the DCT's. drive it like an old woman & it is like a torque converter auto; drive it hard and that slap of the gear changes is FUN. at least in my books.

i had the early version of the M3 SMG - talk about some hard hitting gear changes. again - in my book that is fun.

when i am a little old lady i'll go for the old style auto slush box.

My feelings exactly.

+1 to that
I think the m3 dct and the porsche PDK both feel great. They are both sports cars, you shouldnt be expecting a perfectly smooth ride.

Especially ferrari and lambos, who the F would buy a enzo in 8 speed auto? I would never.

When i am driving spirited, i want to feel it lol.

(i am refering to shifts such as m3 dct, pdk, modern ferrari f1(ala 599) and dct(458), not referring to BMW smg which is a piece of ****.

Agree with that.The gearchange shift at wot and spirited driving has to feel like it means business. None of this slushing around sh.t. But PDK is 7 speed now. Dont know what 458 is. The boffins may say well... whats another gear amongst friends....lets make it 8. I think 6 gears is enough in a sports car anyway.

In sport mode the pdk 997tt only has 6 gears, not 7. I would rarely drive in regular mode - 7 gears