997.2 turbo clutch install (Engine in)
 

Looking for some help / advice / guidance here.....

I did a bunch of web searching for either write ups or factory service manuals for ...specifically 997.2 turbo. I couldn't find anything especially for the .2, most is Metzger (BTW is it Mezger or Metzger.. I've seen it both ways).

Anyway, basic info.... I have a lift, proper tools, lots of experience with engine, trans removals and clutches.... tons of other auto related stuff too. However I've never had a 911 engine or trans out. Honestly from looking at things underneath it appears to be simpler in some ways from some of the other BS I've worked on. I ordered a Sach's 2.5 clutch (even though Sam explained there's really no such thing). .... quick plug.... Sam was awesome! and we talked 911s, NSXs, and other stuff for like 40 minutes!

I am looking for basic "gotchas", stuff that sucks, or tricks that I should know about ahead of time when replacing the clutch.

Sam and I spoke about dropping the whole engine and trans together and I originally wanted to do that if not for curiosity. But the more I think about it I don't feel like the mess, expense, and other BS associated with the fluids and AC recharge. It looks crazy simple to just drop the trans by itself, engine in.

I found this link from the 996 forum on this site..... https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...e-inplace.html

I'm looking to see if the instructions can be used as a pretty good "guide" for the 997.2. I understand its a different car / power plant but so much of this looks to be "technically" similar.

Can anyone offer some real world experience with the removal and / or the similarities between the link & instructions I posted and what I will actually encounter?

Any help would be much appreciated.... Thanks in advance!! - John


My new to me baby...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sl...=w1266-h949-no

It's Mezger, after Hans Mezger.

.... bump

. .. hoping there are some people left that still work on their cars.

While I have not done this job yet (33K miles) I anticipate it at some point. Since I have not done anything with the cooling lines, I probably will drop the engine, but I did some looking and found this:

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-i-did-it.html

I saw some other videos and write ups but they were either a fast paced video clip or a write up on non turbo car.

I will keep looking and see if I see anything else.

Ed

A skilled technician can do this with the engine in the car there is no doubt about it.


Happy to help an offer some guidance if needed.

997.2 are not nearly as prone to the cooling line failures as the 997.1 model so I'm not that worried about leaving the engine in. Thanks for the link, but as you stated, that's a non turbo car which are somewhat different. I'm very much looking for but cannot find anyone who's posted info on a 997.2 turbo clutch job.

I definitely appreciate it. I took the shields down today and took my first look. It actually doesn't look like that difficult of a job. It appears to be pretty straightforward. A couple questions I do have though so I stopped off at the Porsche dealer near me and I was lucky enough to talk to a technician about it. He also reiterated that it can be done while the engine is in the car but most technicians, especially their first time I opt to take the engine out. He also did say taking the engine out is definitely a messy matter, so many fluids that drain out and you constantly gets dripped on. Then of course you've got to refill everything and bleed it. That's what I'm really trying to avoid.

so here's my list of things that I'm concerned about.....

- Can the slave cylinder be unbolted from the trans and just hung up along side, especially since the turbo had the strange power assist. I WAS TOLD YES

- Won't tilting the engine out of the car destroy the charge pipe connectors at the top of the intercoolers where it connects through the inner fender to the y-pipe? I WAS TOLD, BEST TO REMOVE THE BUMPER AND TAKE OFF THE TOP CHARGE PIPES ALONG WITH THE AIR BOX AND Y- PIPE TO AVOID SUCH INTERFERENCE. ALSO OF COURSE THE LOWER CHARGE PIPES DIRECTLY FROM TURBO TO INTERCOOLER.

- Shift fork and using tape to hold it vertical. .. is this really gonna suck? I WAS TOLD ITS ACTUALLY NOT THAT BAD IT USUALLY STAYS UPRIGHT. HOWEVER WHAT IS BAD IS THE FORK PIN THAT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED AND REINSTALLED. THERE ARE NEEDLE BEARINGS IN THERE THAT CAN GET DESTROYED AND / OR FALL BACK INTO THE BELL HOUSING AND YOU REALLY CAN'T GET THE STUFF OUT WITHOUT TAKING THE TRANS BACK DOWN. HE SAID I PROBABLY WILL DO THIS AT LEAST ONCE AND IT CAN BECOME VERY DISCOURAGING. ADDING TO THIS IS THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING.

- How bad is access to the top bell housing bolts. I WAS TOLD AS LONG AS YOU TILT THE ENGINE DOWN QUITE A BIT YOU CAN GET THEM. IT'S TIGHT BUT NOT TERRIBLE.

I'll try and take as many photos as I can keeping this thread alive for others.

thank you!

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...RaQ2F4bjRHRnRn

unless doing other service work or upgrades there is absolutely no reason to remove the engine for a just clutch job, anyone suggesting otherwise has never done one of these.

Started the disassembly, everything seemed really straight forward and pretty damn easy. Then I got to the slave cylinder. The 15mm and 13mm bolts attaching the salve was easy. But the third bolt pinned behind the bracket holding the assist bulb was crazy tough. I finally got that off and then came the real fun. I pull off the breather elbow on the drivers side and couldn't believe how idiotic it is to get my fingers inside the bell housing to the shift fork pin. I pulled off the 10mm bolt holding the cover bracket and then spent 30 minutes trying to pry the shaft cover off!! I got the cover off and you experienced guys could guess what happened...... I dropped it in the bell housing!! lol

I had to stop for the night because I do not have a long enough 6mm bolt to screw in and pull the shaft out.

Honestly I'm sure pulling the shaft out will be easy and I'll be able to remove the bell housing bolts and pull the trans down. What I am not looking forward to is the reassembly. It is so amazing to think I'm suppose to put all this back without stuff falling back into the bell housing. There is absolutely no room to see or work. I can't even use "feel" because you can't fit your fingers and a tool into the opening at the same time. I'm going to spend a lot of time doing a reassembly dry run while its on the floor of my shop. I'm especially concerned about the needle bearings and the shaft alignment. The fact that needle bearing can come out and fall without you hearing them is disconcerting. It seems real difficult to get the shaft in completely square and if you don't I'm guessing you could push the needle bearing on the opposite cap out.

Also worth mentioning I have not dropped the trans at all yet. I'm assuming lowering it down with the engine a little will help gain me the much needed room.

Did you pull the upper right stud out of the engine? You might have to remove it to move the trans back enough to drop it from what I have read.
Also good thick grease will help to hold the needle bearings in place.
Disclaimer
I have not pulled turbo trans just NA on C2. Also multiple air cooled engine/trans assys.

The 997.2 is not a mezger engine so the block / trans is slightly different. In this case the starter goes into the trans from the valley of the engine..... so in other words its pointing towards the front of the car. You don't need to remove it.

Take a look at this thread... I have photos of the removal..... its already out :) I just need the support bar for more confidence going back in. I want to lift my car higher in the air and I need the bar ... my jack stands won't reach.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...inplace-2.html

I posted some info on another thread but I want to tie it all together. Anyway.....

I have the trans out but it was a PITA. Everything was super straight forward until I got to the clutch fork pin. That in theory is easy but the execution (getting your tools in that little space) really sucked. Other problem I ran into was the car height on my lift compared to how high my trans jack could reach. I have a lift but couldn't get the car too high or else my trans jack couldn't reach the car. At maximum reach of the trans jack the car was not high enough to get the trans out when I lowered the jack.

I ended up borrowing a engine support bar from a generous local member however we both didn't know the 997.2 rear sway bar mounts are in a slightly wider set location so his bar didn't work. What I ended up doing instead was using a old table saw stand I had. I put my two high lift jack stands on the table and held the engine up using that rigging. Along with that I bought a hydraulic lifting table in which I placed my trans jack on top of. This setup is working extremely well.

I have a bunch of photos below of the job thus far (I'll post shortly). I also created a very detailed video explanation of the infamous clutch fork pin and how it goes together. I did this because just like the sway bar mounts I found not too many people have good information on the 997.2 I don't understand why but I figured I'd try and help out the community.

Video explanation of the fork pin....

LOL I am in the middle of this on my 997.1.

I have the trans out for the second time right now. The clutch for pin wasn't that hard. I was able to push it out through a hole on the other side of the Trans. From the picture above, you don't have that same hole (the starter goes there on the 997.1). You can see in the picture below me using a coat hanger through the hole to show you what I mean
Attachment 537198

One of my 2 issues were getting the transmission low enough to get by the crash bar on top. I just didn't see it, so I was prying for about 30 min before I was bright enough to reach up above and notice it hitting the body. hilarious
Attachment 537199

The other issue I had was the throwout bearing assembly to the pressure plate. I must not have had the snap ring seated all the way because it popped off. After all was assembled the first time, I noticed there was no tension behind the clutch fork when I used my finger to push on it where the slave cylinder usually does. :rolleyes:

Pointing to where the snap ring was not seated. In this picture it should be in right. :cool:
Attachment 537200

Anyway, I will post up more when I get this all done.

X...

P.S. I could have used your video LAST WEEK! LOL

Yeah the 997.1 is kind of the same but different in many ways!! I'm going to ask if you can please do me a favor though..... I know you're going to post more pictures but I'm hoping you could perhaps start a new thread and post them there, removing your photos from here..... keep the text though... its awesome!!

Reason why I'm asking is it took me weeks to find any information on the 997.2 , there's just none out there. I'm afraid for the community that I went and created a specific thread just for the 997.2 and someone may see your photos and get confused.

Anyway.... it's a free world and a public forum so its ultimately up to you. I just think its best for the community.....

Thanks - JD

Xander came across some issues that I was afraid I was going to have, specifically the snap ring on the throw out bearing. Using a press is the way to go as I tried standing on the pressure plate (yes I tried) and putting the snap ring in. Besides almost killing myself it didn't really seat well. I resorted to using my hydraulic press which..... was far easier anyway....lol

I ended up getting this job done in one shot although I took a ridiculously long time. The reinstall took me about 5 hours which is laughable for a seasoned tech, I was just determined not to have to take it apart again.

Below are some photos culminating with a short video of me starting the car with the new 200cel cats and sharkwerks muffler delete.

If anyone has any questions on a 997.2 clutch job please feel free to ask in PM... I feel like a seasoned expert now.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...821780d3d8.jpgtaking a bunch of stuff off the car to ensure tilting the engine doesn't break anything


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...397de87e35.jpg
Taking out the pin


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...8344482022.jpg
Another shot of taking out the pin


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...83eb4ecec0.jpg
The pin on my bench with the long bolt used to extract still in place. I used a nut and washer on the end so that while reinstalling I am able to push on the bearing cap to drive the pin home. Note.... don't tighten the bolt too much or else you will not be able to remove after reinstalling


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...05dcc55675.jpg
Hello trans


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...a95baf0b50.jpg
997.2 trans housing..... note.... no starter hole


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...bcdd9ee986.jpg
small access cover where the breather tube normally exists. you have to remove this tube an plate to gain access. For me I actually had to pry (carefully) off the breather tube first and then take the three bolts for the plate off. I couldn't get a socket in between the breather tube and one of the three bolts


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...b632bdc205.jpg
my setup for reinstall


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...bedceb769e.jpg
I love you hydraulic table!!


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...1a8b5619ca.jpg
Don't tape the fork on too tight. I ended up tearing the damn tape off when I tried to pull it off. I spent 45 minutes with a pair of needle nose pliers fishing out the tape..... not fun!!


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...751088cda6.jpg
lining back up.... also not fun. Getting the angle right is always tough on a clutch job, For some reason lining this trans up was really bad.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...27b78c8a6f.jpg
Hard to see but shes almost home.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...34ad76ebe1.jpg
This is my trick from my JDM import days. working with bolts in tight areas. Don't want to drop it into the trans? Don't use a magnet or your fingers. Find a piece of fuel hose and do this.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...7fc0f94635.jpg
Using the fuel hose allows you to turn the bolt into place. It doesn;t get cross threaded because the flexible hose helps the bolt find its way in nice ans easy. Once she threads a bit simply pull the hose off.... all done


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...11e5d7aeca.jpg
bolting everything back up


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...d7f5d4bffe.jpg
yeah.... I have a problem keeping things neat....lol


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...dd325f154b.jpg
A few extras here..... I used my bore scope hooked up to my smart phone to peak inside the pin area to see what I was up against while reinstalling. Here is a shot through the fork pin mount. See the needle bearing on the cap on the opposite side? Pretty cool


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...34273cab68.jpg
Here a hard one to understand. You are looking at the plastic side caps of the fork. The fork is almost seated home in the trans housing. This is showing me that she's lined up and about 1/8 of the way seated. All I hav to do is pull the fork back into place on the trans. From this view I can tell its safe to remove the tape because the fork cannot fall down anymore.... shes already partially seated.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...5ea5090b6d.jpghere is a view of the bolt and bracket for the fork pin reinstalled. Nothing dropped into the trans / bell housing!!

God I love the way this sounds..... It sets my CRX alarm off!!! Gotta love it!!