sally got a treatment today. no crazy stuff like waxing, but she is clean now so if i touch her in the garage i do not get all covered in brake/rubber dust.

so i decided to snap some pictures to celebrate this rare occasion.

 

Winter is creeping in on you enjoy these days while they last

 

You and I seem to have washing our cars at the same level...a rare occasion.

IMO it is an appliance, and gets used the way it is suppose to be used.

Nice pictures, the CCW's look good on it.

 

yep, 9/12" rims, 265/335 rubber, -3 front camber, -2.5 rear, no rubbing, everything fits pretty well.

also those pictures show what an optimal car heigh for C2 should be - how how much it should be lowered with base uprights, any lower and control arms will not be working at optimal angle. somebody was asking me about this before but i did not have any pictures. actually from that angle on first picture it cannot be seen well, this one does it a bit better but it was too dark so i had to adjust it a bit so colors now look weird.

 

Since you brought it up, I'd say that 'optimal' ride height is a matter of personal opinion. IMHO, yours still looks too high. My research showed that if one puts on a rear toe kit on and dog bones, then the geometry issue would be resolved. Front control arms might be needed for track alignment, but stock would allow for a mildly aggressive street alignment. That's the works I had done to my car, along with damptronics, for my 'optimal' ride height.

Your car looks good washed, though!!

 

there is no 'personal opinion' about that, to get car lower and maintain correct behavior in corners one needs to replace uprights to gt3 rs or cup car ones, stock C2 and C2S are not intended to allow car to get lower as it makes control arms to cross at wrong angle, they should be at 90 degrees. lowering car more changes that. this limitation is in front. rear end should be set half inch higher than front, but those details i am not even concerned about - mechanic knows that better than i do.

I went over all that with my mechanic when he was adjusting all this music together. cars that get 'dropped' to the floor do not perform well on a track after that. as usual - to get cup car riding height and performance one needs to use cap car components and it costs extra.

 

I think what Jack is saying is that there is an OEM ROW height, and this height is well within the stock Carrera parts adjusting limits.

I have my car set to OEM ROW height, with an OEM performance alignment and get even wear on both my streets and track wheels, and is very capable on the track.

 

Actually - I may be wrong, certainly, as I'm new to this - but I thought that the front control arms were fine even with a car significantly lowered, but that GT3 type would be needed to track the car, for more aggressive camber settings.

In the past, I upgraded the control arms on my track 944 due to issues with that model, so I'm somewhat sensitive to this issue.

Also, I find that this stuff is sometimes able to be stated with certainty of a consensus of folks in the know, but other things are more open to opinion of various mechanics, just like in medicine, different Dr.s will have varying opinions.

Like I said, my research tells me something different, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. My car is quite low and I figured that ion fine for the street at this point with damptronics, toe link kit, and rear dog bones. I spoke with a tech salesman at RSS as well as my independent mechanic about this, and did some research here and on another forum. I figured on buying the RSS control arms if/when I track this car.

 

Hmm. There is more to that actually when you start rebuilding whole thing. Only stock part left in my suspension is that steering control arm in front and in rear - fork arms. and uprights, as to replace an upright would mean for me to replace brake calipers and that would mean to also replace master brake cylinder and none of that was budgeted, so i can live perfectly fine with what I have now.

my car was lowered exactly to the limit where bump steering correction is not yet required, as i was told, i think that was one of the descriptions.

 

building a custom suspension is quite some a voodoo art. i would not discuss it with any salesman, you need a local pro shop or mechanic who works constantly with 996/997 gt3 and cup cars. it is much less a problem of what components to buy but how to put it all together properly.
my mechanic uses ERP rod ends and he claims it to be top notch quality wise but still, none of that is really suatable for a street car and definitely not in the winter when you start getting salt and sand on all exposed steel monoballs.

 

I love it when you guys talk about this stuff...I just wish I understood more!

Thanks for taking the time to share so much.

 

well, i am working in 'parrot' mode here only as unfortunately i quite quickly realized my knowledge limits where it comes to suspension rebuilds.
it all looks kinda easy at a first glance and most probably will even work no matter how badly setup was failed during DIY but to get an optimal performance from all this stuff it has to be configured and installed correctly with all those requirements and little 'details' unknown to general public. i just surrender it all to my mechanic.

 

I think I can agree your statement about voodoo art.

Here's how io see it:
You can go down this path with 5 different folks and get 5 slightly different answers, but we all have a different path of questions (goals), budget, etc.

Here's my path:
Q: I want less tire fender gap. I'm ok with a stiffer ride, but this is a street car that may see some track time down the road. I want to do it the right way, within reason financially

A: you could go with Lowering springs but the rides sucks and the labor cost is the same as if you bought coil overs. So I choose coil overs
But - with a lowered car, you definitely need a rear toe kit. Check that for accuracy and seems true. Call to order and sales tech says I also need rear dog bones. Check that and seems true enough, although my mechanic is not sold immediately. Order anyway and my mechanic states after install that pit was a great addition as it helped with bump steer. Also got the adjustable drop links to take out pre-load. All seems good. Asked about the front control arms and everyone I spoke to said its not needed unless you want lots of camber for a track alignment. So I pass on that for now. I figure I'm all set, with my ideal (for me) ride height with a safe set-up and no geometry issues that will result in strange tire wear, etc.

If I'm wrong (given my application and goals), please correct me, but I think it's a different story for different folks, based on different goals. I took issue with your statement about 'optimal' ride height as I believe what's 'optimal' for one person is not necessarily optimal for the next guy.

 

Hmm... well. gosh. see, how i see it at least, frankly i do not care about any 'fender gap'. it is all about performance - to be specific about exactly your car handles in the corner. more specifically - how exactly contact patch on your tires gets transformed while one side of your car gets loaded in the turn.

here we go into several key components as first - how we should set your center of gravity, essentially your car height, how much strong should be your springs and sway bars, so essentially for how each side will travel in a turn and then most importantly how all those control arms you have in your suspension will behave under load.

so, going step by step there are sort of simplified 'answers' like GMG adjustable swaybars, eibach 5" long 600/700lbs main springs with tenders, JRZ shocks with matching valving (matching springs rate), all rubber bushings and rod ends in all arms replaced with steel monoballs but it all kinda works all together. getting 'lower' than 'optimal' height will ruin the ride and ruin those specific parameters of how arms should travel and be positioned against each other. that is why I was saying - if you want to lower car all the way down like a cup car in which tires are above fender line - you will need cup car components to preserve correct geometry. and it is pricey.

'optimal' here is one single core element - maximum provided traction in a given corner. steel monoballs prevent any dynamic toe/camber/caster changes so car maintains grip better, lowered car has center of gravity lower so it sways less, stiffer springs provide more instantaneous feedback, but devil is in details, again, say, how low to go, how to adjust rod ends, etc., etc.

i think you were more talking about this from a 'visual' perception, like some folks put in 20" rims. etc. while all those pro grade rebuilds are getting done purely for performance alone.

 

I was speaking both from a visual and a performance perspective.

Each track you drive on will have a different ideal spring rate and alignment, etc. It can all change. It should also change with driver skill and preference. There is no one right answer for this stuff - any of it, as far as I know.

I know stuff generally more than I know the 997 specifically, but I think the general rules apply.

Anybody who tells you there is one right setting for this stuff is full of it, IMHO. Read 'Tune to Win', talk to or read about pro situations, etc