I read a lot of posts where a lot of the normally aspirated drivers share an opinion that a Turbo engine is "disconnected" or "lacks precision" .
Now it's true that when I think of the first Turbo Porsche i ever drove (944 Turbo) there was enormous Turbo lag .

Times are changing though . Some of the manufacturers have really upped the bar with the Turbo and whatever the manufactuers have missed the tuners have made up for . I sometimes question whether its even worth it to modify a normally aspirated car as the gains are so modest but with a Turbo the gains are huge.

BMW is leading the Turbo blitz with cars like the 1M , the new M5 , and the next generation M3 (all Turbos). Porsche not only has a Turbo 997, Cayenne, and Panamera but they are also upping the Hp and refinement with the Turbo "S" in all three .

A lot of normally aspirated guys do ask .. "how much faster is a Turbo" and ""can the car really be tuned to make a big difference" ?

On that note I leave you with my favorite Turbo speed clip..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqQGprL2lsc

 

Well you are right on with this statement BUT at what price?
Modest HP gains=modest money spent
Huge HP gains=Huge money spent

I could only imagine what the EVT1500 would cost!
Here is EVOMS kits...NO $$$$ value for the 1000 hp+... and IF you have to ask....you probably couldn't afford it,LOL!
The EVT790/850R is right at $50,000 and I am POSITIVE it is worth EVERY penny......I couldn't imagine spending that on my humble salary!

http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/Mar...675CBDC88BE%7D


So in reality there is NO comparing an NA with added turbo car to a factory turbo modified when calculating dollars spent!........

BUT after meeting Todd at EVOMS in person last year and money was no object...HELL ya' he would be my pick to do the job!

Stacy

 

Most Turbo owners are content with a stock Turbo and the new PDK car is so fast right out of the box . The 997.1 does however need some work and the Tuners have taken this gt1 engine to incredible levels .

If one looks at the various Turbo speed records (993tt, 996tt, and 997tt) everyone spent money to get the cars to that level but some of the older cars are still flying fast . In short .. its a long term car and the money spent lasts with a 10 year experience for some.

Just so that you can see how far the new car is even in stock form look at how a Turbo PDK stacks up agaist a 997.1 Gt2 . Now of course the modded gt2's will cream it but the stock PDK car is so quick that for most drivers .. it's more than one needs ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOE7dv5hs_o

 

The PDK IS a fast car! Lets face it...who can shift a manual car as fast as a PDK?
I wonder what the average person loses in time in a 1/4 mile run shifting gears compared to a PDK car?
That right there is a HUGE gain BUT personally I am a 6spd guy who gets more of a thrill shifting gears the OLD fashioned way!

And sorry for editing my first post 100 times,couldn't get my thought to paper.......long day behind the wheel with the car I haven't driven in 7 months

Stacy

 

I miss my 997 Turbo, and will likely be back in a 997.2 PDK Turbo when the price gets closer to the range I want to spend. That being said I am still having alot of fun with the 997 C2S that I bought to replace the turbo. It is certainly slower than the Turbo, but by no means slow.

 

The speed records are still done with manual cars . Part of the reason is that the new PDK car hasn't been out long enough .

Also keep in nmind that my first post did not mention cost . My focus wasn't on the expense but rather how advanced the Turbo cars are becoming . I feel that a lot of normally aspirated die hard fans haven't looked at the newer models closely . That's often the case when something new grows to the next level . In fact it was the case with PDK with some turbo owners who clung to the manual despite the PDK's ability to maintain boost on shifts .

Change is never easy to see with cars
.. but the abilities of the Turbo cars are changing fast.

 

Yrralis..to your original post, I think a lot of the perceptions on the turbo regarding "disconnected" and "imprecise" are probably more related to 4wd and suspension tuning vs. turbo lag. I don't have a very good data set here (have driven two 996 turbos a good amount, but no 997's) but based on what I have driven, the turbo was in fact disconnected and heavy in the front. I felt the front left/right were soft and the steering seemed a little soggy.
Coming off a '86 Carrera and a '97 C2, the turbos both seemed almost similar to a japanese sports coupe. My wife would ask me if I liked them and the best I could describe was that the car was built for an orthodontist (sorry to the orthodontists, just picking on a high income profession that lacks rock star image).
Anyhow...my gut is that the Porsche markets the turbo into a demographic that is looking for a very fast, very comfortable, very controlled platform. Nothing wrong with that, but just not what I buy a Porsche for. My guess is that they improved on all aspects moving into the 997...and PDK is just a huge technical step forward. I would love to drive a 997 turbo...hopefully will get a chance at some point.

 

Your post is so spot on !!!!!! I agree with everything that you've said .
Now I have never driven a modded Gt2 .
I did change the suspension in my 997tt (coil overs , gt2 sway bar , front brace , and alignment tweaks ) and that AWD wil always reveal its weight .

 

1. In recent years the 911 turbo has gotten heavier and with awd the handling has changed. This might be the source of the "disconnected" comments. From what I have read, the latest version uses the braking system to improve handling like with the Acura.

2. VW/Audi is leading the turbo wave, not BMW. BMW just recently moved into boosted engines to solve their lack of low and mid range torque for teh US market ( they have used turbo diesels for years in Europe... well, everyone does). They will soon replace their weak NA 6 cyl engines with turbo 4 cyl engines and follow the VW lead for more torque and power in a lighter more efficient package. Even Porsche is considering a 4 cyl turbo for the 911!

3. I prefer a turbo combined with a manual trans. In too many turbo AT cars, I have experienced the scenerio where I add more gas and not much happens.... abit more gas and now the trans downshifts and the boost comes on at the same time giving more power than I wanted for the situation. A turbo with a manual enables one to use the turbocharger to adjust power without changing gears. This work well with modern turbos with smaller turbochargers that spool up quickly.

 

I have no experience with Porsche turbo cars, but I owned a modded 2005 Subaru Sti and I presently own a 997.1 C2.

What I can say is that with a well tuned turbo, there really isnt any appreciable turbo lag or disconnected feeling. The turbo on the Sti spooled very fast, and hit peak boost (~18lbs) in a blink of an eye. With a couple hours of seat time, you can be smooth as silk in a turbo, just have to have a good tune and a driver who knows the car.

I think one benefit to the turbo cars is the additional sensory pleasure you can derive from (1) the whoosh and pssssshhhhtttt sounds and (2) the immediate kick in the pants when the turbo hits. Compare this to an N/A car with the same HP and torque, and the N/A car tends to "feel" slower than a turbo'ed car because the N/A car typically will have a very linear power progression, as opposed to the kick you can get with a turbo (which is why turbos take some additional driving skill to drive as smoothly).

Just some ramblings...

 

Ughhhh. I can't decide between a 993, a 997.1 Turbo or a 997.2 PDK. One thing is for sure, my 997.1 C2S is a transition car.

 

pdk is also faster because when you kick down it instantly turns off AC, figures exact gear, and shoots rpm to high as it can in the lowest gear to make the car as fast as it can be.. im sorry but no 6 speed driver knows EXACTLY what gear is best and also if that gear will run out quick you go to next gear to avoid that 2 second later shift..

PDK is the best, (this coming from a 6 x 6speed owner and still has a 6speed as well as pdk and a crap tiptronic)

 

This is precisely what I am trying to say . It's not just the tuned cars but the newest stock cars which have an improved drive . Porsche is still keeping the Turbo and Turbo S as a high end car with a bit more luxury but BMW is taking much more of an engine risk with the new M5 , the 1M , and the next generation M3.

I stop to wonder whether we are driving the last great normally aspirated cars .... or if the new Turbos are going to become so advanced that a computerized throttle precsion mated to higher Hp producing fuel economy will create the next wave of great autos.

 

I like the thread.

I for one would buy a 997.2 Turbo S if I had the money. I have not driven any TT's so I do not have any real experience to speak from. But from everything that I have read, the new TT's are beasts. I just sold my 997S today and I am in the market for a newer, faster Porsche. A GT3 is at the top of the list but I plan on test driving both a 997.1 TT and a 997.2 TT. I think I will love the power.

From what I have read the disconnected feeling comes from the front end weight and the throttle response. I think Excellence said it best when they said, very little turbo lag is still turbo lag. I am sure that one day, there will be no lag. BMW's rumored TTT technology (thats right three trubo's) might be the next big thing.

Also, I disagree with one of the statements above, BMW, along with Porsche, are in fact brining "new" turbo technology to the performance car world. And, doing it better than VW. Keep in mind BMW had turbo engines back when VW was still building Rabbits.

Bottom line, the new 997.2 Turbo's are hugely tantalizing... especially as a "do everything, under any conditions Porsche". I do not think the experience will be as visceral as say a new GT3 or GT3RS but that is why I plan on doing some test drives.

Jason

 

Keep in mind that the huge move in the direction of Turbo tech is primarily driven by rising fuel prices and lower emissions requirements. It is hard to guess what BMW would have done with the future of M engines without those driving factors but my guess is that NA would have continued to be the M divisions ethos.

Jason