Building on Leeor's terrific thread on DE tires.

The other area I think I need to improve my car in moving into intermediate classes is the seats.

With the newer suspension in the car I am now throwing myself around more.

What's the recommendations and what would you do first?

Dedicated set of DE tires or seats and harnesses?

I guess from a safety point of view the seats should come first.

 

I prepared my car over the winter for DE duty. As a package I added the suspension pieces noted in my signature. Prior to my first DE I added a Sabelt Taurus FIA seat, a set of Safety Solutions Hans compatible belts and a Safety Solutions Hybrid Pro for head and neck restraint.

I'd compare the seat/harness/head neck restraint to driving a car without PDK and then driving the same car with PDK. In one you have to focus on shifting while the other takes a little off the mental plate. Driving a car with proper restraints is similar. You stay in one place and you are not exerting energy while adjusting your body position. While you may not think there is a mental offset there is one. Of course the biggest plus is the obvious safety side to the equation. That was my main reason for adding the additional safety gear.

 

While seats are a great mod, I'm not sure anyone would say a good pair of seats are more essential than a good set of tires.

 

ALan,

this is great info. I was working with a driving coach last month and he echoed this. I was spending so much energy keeping myself in the right position I was having trouble focusing on driving.

 

For the last 20 plus years of track driving I've always had a proper seat. I've not always had r compounds or slicks. Assuming one can get the most out of a set of r compounds on the track would, in my opinion, make more of a case for being properly belted into a shell type seat.

I was recently at Mid-Ohio for a 3 day event running in the instructor group using a set of half worn PS2s. I had a great time playing with a few GT3s and I was much happier having a proper seat than I would have been with a set of Hoosiers and no seat/restraint combo.

If the plan is to do the occasional DE at a lower level then the seat might not be number one on the priority list.

 

buckwheat,

After you put a seat in you will wonder why you waited so long to do it. If you are concerned about taking the seat in and out it's not too bad. I can change my seat in less than an hour.

Good idea hooking up with a coach. It is time well spent.

 

i would (and did) got CCW first. 18" rims in 9" front, 12" rear, NB GT3 offsets. CCW knows what you need. it is an open question if one should get 18" or 19" rims now as stock gt3 cars come with 19" now and selection of 18" 255/315 rubber really sucks. so, it is an open question but separate track wheels set is a #1. and #2 would be a small trailer to haul those rims with you to a track.

as of seats - first you put in rollbar or a harness bar - depending of what works for you best. i need my rear seats once in a while so i use this:
http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/r1030.php

if i could forget about rear seats then I would put on rollbar that mounts in same way as BK to rear strut bolts on top and has plates on the floor.

then if you have rollbar then you do not care if seats can recline - can get 996 gt3 seats or recaro spg xl. i use recaro cs for driver side only - it reclines and tilts. many options out there for this stuff. if you can - go with rollbar and spg seats, they are great for track.

but none of good track buckets are comfortable for street driving, and vice versa, comfortable seats do not really hold you well on a track. you'll have to research a bit this stuff, best way to do is to go to some big shop that has plenty of those seats so you could try them out first.

 

Mike, I was recommended a shop near you in NJ that has a wide selection to check out in person. Will PM you. The thing is you need to get one that fits your body well or there's no point. For example, the width of the GT3 seats aren't the best for skinny weaklings like me.

Personally, I think you're making a great choice doing this mod. The fact that you're even conscious of your body's motion while on the track tells me you'll benefit from it. Worse case, you save your stock seats and go back. Judging from the Marketplace and eBay, the used prices for quality seats hold up really well. Also, you can learn how to swap them out for winter and store them in your house.

The other advantage of bucket seats I imagine (track vets pls chime in) is that you get a more direct, connected feel to the road, especially if you take out the cushions.

In my case, I ultimately decided against it because I use the car year round and just love the combo of the heated seats and open targa roof too much. Also I often drive 100+ miles at a time, and I don't think the bucket seats would be good for that. That said, I'm always itching for it on track days. I've put them in the category of "things I will do when I get a dedicated track car." But maybe I'll change my mind after sitting in yours!

 

It will depend in part on where you will be driving. With NASA, if you use race seats, harnesses, and roll cage, they must meet certain requirements. The PCA requirements are less strict. As an example, PCA will allow an anti-submarine strap to attach to a bar attached to the seat frame, NASA will not.

Once you figure out what's allowed for the group or groups you run with, then you can look at a safety system. I would consider a safety system to include - roll bar, seat, 5 or 6 point harness, helmet and HANS or similar device.

The seat and harness will keep you relatively upright in the event of a crash - hence the need for roll protection. I personally would not drive a car with race seats and harnesses without a roll cage, or a roll bar at the minimum. Might as well add it - you need a harness bar to get the proper angle for the harness straps anyway.

Then, for street use, the roll cage must be padded anywhere your head could hit it. Without a helmet, it could cause a serious head injury. That's why it's called a safety system - all the parts are needed for maximum protection.

If you want to keep the car stock and not slide around as much, try a CG lock. A relatively inexpensive solution that doesn't need anything else.

Also, there are race type seats that will work with stock seatbelts. They will be street legal and still hold you better on the track. And there are 4-point harness systems that will work with stock seats and a roll bar. Some are street legal as well. It all depends on what you want and what compromises you want to make - to comfort, safety, street use, etc.

 

I installed 996 GT3 (recaro) buckets with a 6 point harness in my C2S and had the OPC turn off the airbag warning light with their PIWIS. After a few track events I enquired with my insurance carrier about the add ons. They said that if my vehicile was involved in an incident / accident (on track or not) and if the original seats (with airbag enabled) was not present, then they would void / not honor any insurance claim. In light of this, I had the original seat re-installed for daily driving and have put the GT3 seats aside for the 3 or 4 DE events I do. What a hassle!

 

For you guys with stock seats....if you use a CG-Lock and then tilt the seat back a little and firmly and quickly tug on the shoulder belt it will lock into place and then you move your seat back forward till the shoulder belt is tight on you.

I have 2 CG-Locks I can sell.....$20ea.....let me know.

 

I tracked extensively with my Boxster S with a 996 GT3 seat/six point restraints/HANS. I now have a 997 C2S that I have spent about 5 DE days getting used to the difference in cars. I can't express in words how much the seat/harnesses make a difference on track. As stated in this thread, being able to steer and brake w/o having to try and keep oneself still in the seat is a big difference in track competency.

It is paradoxical to think of using "sticky" tires w/o the seat and restraints. My track time in the 911 up until now has been with PS2's. I wanted a firm grasp of car control with more compliant tires before I upgrade to DOT comp tires, which from my experience are about 3-5 seconds a lap quicker (depending on which track) than the PS2's.

Another issue that needs to be considered: Safety. I am a 911 driver due to the fact that my son rolled our Boxster RS60 @ Thunderhill June of 2010. W/o the seat/restrains/ AND HANS device, he would most likely suffered severe neck injury or death.

I coach with several DE event groups, and I think most drivers don't consider that there is some chance of a catastrophic outcome to a track mistake. Rare but It can happen.

I can change my seats/restaints and put in my DAS roll bar in about an hour.

 

PM sent.