Is my thinking flawed on an 05s 997 purchase?
 

Been in the market for a 997 for quite some time now and here is what I came up with between everything I have read / heard from doing forum/online research.


Looking to pick up a 05 997s, 62k, all maintenance done, etc. Based on online ‘opinions’ it appears that 05’s have more IMS problems than 06/07 which leaves two options – LN replacement or extended warranty to not have that issue in the back of my mind. I understand that even the LN replacement is not a guarantee and the price is almost equivalent (maybe slightly less) to getting a 2-3 year Fidelity warranty and the warranty would cover other small/medium/large issues that might come up along the way - which would be important given the mileage and age of the vehicle. So what I would be getting is an almost guaranteed sleep safe/trouble free car (unexpected expenses wise) for 2-3 years for around 40k total including warranty and without having to mess around with LN retrofits while being fully protected against IMS total catastrophe. Yes I can potentially add the couple extra thousand dollars instead of warranty and get an 06 model which would still be plagued by much the same issues as the 05.



Is there anything I am missing or what it appears to me is that I would be buying almost an equivalent of a CPO / new Porsche but for less than half the price out the door and being a daily driver for the next few years depreciation of only anywhere from 5-8K when I plan on getting rid of this in 2 years with around 90K miles. Please advise if my thinking is flawed!

I thought IMS issues were N/A for the 997 and only applied to 996s. I have never heard of anyone having issues on a 997.

The 997 engine up to 09 is basically the same as the 3.6l m96 engine. All have the risk of failure. That said Porsche did improve the bearing over time. Not sure but I thought for 05 and up the relpacement bearing was more costly as you have to split the engine case - someone with more experience on older 997 can chime in.
buy the car enjoy itvor get an 09 plus to avoid the issue, the failure rate is very low.

Hey, congrats on the decision to take the plunge.

I own a '05 997.1S and basically took the same route you are looking at. My car had 30K when I purchased it around 2 years ago; out of factory warranty so I too went with an aftermarket warranty solution for the peace of mind. Oh yeah, and remember, the 997S car has the 3.8 liter, not the 3.6. In any event, the percentage of IMS-related failures is statistically small. I would however, highly recommend that you have extensive documentation on the '05 your looking at...as service history is a must. You can research the forum to see some of the stories from members that have had problems.

My approach was to buy the car, make the mods I want, drive it and enjoy it, and if something does go wrong I’m covered. Let's face it, things go wrong. You could be driving a 991 and have some sort of unforeseen catastrophic failure. End of story.

Ultimately it's your call as to what level of risk you are comfortable with. Frankly, I believe they're all great engineered cars, and accept the fact that things do go wrong. If something does happen, take it to the shop and have it repaired like any other vehicle. I wouldn't let that stop me from buying a Porsche though. I agree with hyper911, if it's the age that makes you nervous, get something newer to avoid this particular issue, with some factory warranty left.

Regardless of your decision, they're all great cars. Drive it like you stole it!!! :)

Not correct, 05 to be sure seems to be the problem child for IMS failure. Only after 09 does the issue seem to have been resolved. I had an 05 with a fidelity warranty . I sold the car before the warranty expired as i did not want that car without warranty. I then bought an 03 Turbo. The turbo's have a different and smaller shaft which are not prone to failure and its a turbo:)

Thank you for your suggestions - I am looking at '05 as a financially better option to spending $20K+ more for the 08/09 on a nearly identical car which would still be carrying the warranty...and then on TOP of that I would have to take a much bigger depreciation plunge than if I were to buy the '05.

Seems like buying older...tagging on warranty and keeping the car for the 2 years I typically own high end cars for gives the best all around win/win approach. The car already took the significant depreciation so I would just be insuring myself against the 'unknowns' for a 'measly' 10% cost of the car (assuming warranty would run 3-4K) for the 2 years I would own it. Seems like a MUCH better financial reasoning than paying upwards of extra 20K on a 'newer' 997 and virtually getting the same car. By gauging members here experiences - also seems as well that Fidelity (warranty provider) comes through on jobs big and small and virtually with no issues getting it repaired through the Porsche dealership. Maybe it's not 100% CPO - but 90% close.

Im thinking going this route VS. getting an 08/09 would yield me an almost IDENTICAL car giving peace of mind (with warranty added on) package/body style/performance...but REDUCE my initial out of pocket cost ($40K Vs $60-65K) and REDUCE 2 year depreciation by nearly 50% at least (Tops $10K on the '05 Vs at least $20K on the '08/'09).

I know a lot of people on this forum advocate to buy the newest car you can afford, get it CPO, etc etc...but I believe going with an 'older' 997 and tagging on the warranty is a much better financial decision (assuming keeping car for 2 years again) which avoids all 'catastrophic' incidents issues mentioned through these forums, even if they are potentially very very rare. Yes - I can stretch my budget to get the '06-'07 but whats the POINT when I would still have to add on warranty to avoid potentially big unwanted expenses no matter the mileage or how well the car has been 'taken care' of previously.

RickB - how have your experiences been with an aftermarket warranty and who is your provider?

I went with Century Warranty Services through Costco. It basically covers everything (short exclusion list) with a $100 deductible and they had the best competitive rate. My dealer was familiar with them, which also gave me a comfort level.

The potential catch for the car you're looking at may be mileage. Some vendors have maximums -OR- big increases after a certain amount, so shop around. I also have Fidelity on a '05 Mini Cooper S I have (my daily driver).

So far (knock on wood...) no claims for either.

The only other thing I forgot to mention is the PPI. It's a must, and that will also tell you if there are any signs of impending doom. ;)

Best of luck my friend!

Socialpro, I too bought a 2005 in order to get into the newest Porsche I could reasonably afford and my initial reaction would be to tell you to have the IMS retrofit (approx. $1100) and skip the more expensive aftermarket warranty because these cars are very reliable. However, my car had quite a bit less miles than yours and isn't a DD, so I think your analysis is valid. Good luck.

Yes - I would consider doing only IMS if this was parked in the garage all of the time but Im looking at putting on between 25-30K miles in the next 2 years and feel that paying the $2-3K over what it would cost just to do the IMS is well worth the extra peace of mind of having full coverage warranty on a DD 7 year old porsche - and It appears that the IMS upgrade is not 100% bulletproof either.

So I guess the question on hand is whether to go sink the extra $3-4K difference on an '06 997 with ~ say 50K miles (no warranty) or get the '05 with the 62k but FULL warranty for two years. Going the '05 route seems almost like a no brainer to me ?? :confused: $3-4K warranty sounds reasonable for a car that was 90-100K originally, getting a car that is nearly identically 'protected' as a $70K '09 CPO porsche (that will tank in value in the next 2 years), AND totally crosses off ANY financial implications due to huge catastrophic occurrences that might come up along the way. YES a PPI will be done if I go with the '05 option -- but it almost seems like it would have even 'less' of an impact to get the car examined and trust/dont trust the opinion of the mechanic if I add on warranty...

It is also NICE to hear of other members here who chose to go the route of 'older' 997 and tack on aftermarket warranty. Id like to hear more of those experiences. A LOT of opinions on these threads mention STRONGLY to stay away from '05-08s (particularly 05's) due to IMS / first year release issue / ticking 'time bomb' comments etc. And yes I would agree that a Porsche (or any german car for that matter), no matter the 'year', over 60K miles will probably have issues starting around that age. It seems a lot of that worry or concern or even what seems like 'internet hype' is taken care of with an extended warranty where you dont have to think twice - and I would get to keep large chunks of cash in the pocket by now splurging on the '09+ IMS free models.

My opinion is there is not anything wrong to buying an 05-08 porsches as long as one is not ignorant to what issues/problems can accrue and protect themselves as needed with the option of LN retrofit (on 05s), or going with the warranty option on those years...which in almost ALL of the cases will be way less total out of pocket $$ than the price of CPO and/or original warantee '08+ cars. If one is concerned with the IMS which the internet has hyped up very well with 'occurrences and inevitable-ness' around all of the porsche forums it seems like the extended warranty is a great option to soothe the mind. If somebody cannot 'self insure' taking a potential loss of $20K to replace the engine or spend an 'extra' 10-15% of car cost up front to be covered with a warantee - maybe the Porsche isn't the right car for them and I feel no 'pity' for the ones who have experienced IMS failures and go on to whine about it. The internet and these forums explain the issue surrounding it very well and each individual needs to face and account in the risks when making ANY purchase or decision - be it a Porsche, a House, a Business or a College Education in their selected major.

Case in point - my current DD 335i has been at the dealers twice already for the fuel pump and it did not bother me one bit...why? Because the car has been under warantee and my out of pocket on this 'insurmountable' talked all over bmw issue has been $0 both times. In fact Ive been happy to take the car to the dealer if for nothing else then the free car wash.

Thread resurrection: What did you end up doing? I've been lurking and researching 997s. I like and agree with your reasoning, though I may target an 06.

I ended up passing on the high mileage 05s as the car was going to be my dd and the higher mileage and maintenance associated with that scared me off. Also the forum 'consensus' was that 05s were the most issue ridden with IMS.

About a month ago I came across a pristine 06 non-s with only 25k miles that just came out of CPO with all service records etc. In the end I decided to take a 'newer' non-s than a higher mileage older S because to me driving both especially for city driving did not present much difference in itself and price wise they were about in the same bracket. I finally bit the bullet on the low mileage one right after seeing it and have been in enjoying it for close to a month now with no issues! I am going to pass on the warranty for now, as the IMS is not as big of a concern to me on the 06 and up models. Hope this helps you out and so far I have been very happy with my decision. Good luck in your search!

Thanks for the quick reply - sounds like you did exactly what I'm hoping to do soon. Did you post pics and details of what you got? I'd of course be interested in what you paid as well but would understand if you didn't want to divulge that.

I will do a new write up soon on car / pictures when I get a moment as well as describe my experience with the car along with differences encountered between that and my previous cars (latest being a 335i).

Sounds good - looking forward to it. I tried to reply to your PM but can't until 15 posts. I drive a 535 now, and will likely start a thread about my search as well.

I'm in the same boat as you now, sadly selling my 2002 (really dont want to) and now gonna look for a 2005-2006 ps: i dont think 05 has more ims issues than 06..also IMS issue i think is blown out of proportion, however i did get the ims LN upgrade on my 02"

I bought an '05 997S in Feb. I paid to extend the CPO by 3 yrs/ 36,000 miles. Very happy so far. I'm glad I got the 'S' because it came with a lot more as standard than the base.

I believe there is communication on the forum regarding IMS failure that states it depends on when the '05 was made. After March (?), the bearing was changed. I have an '07, the bearing is fortified and I have never heard of a failure on the later 997.1 models. But, nothing is 100% failsafe and my bearing can't be replaced without completely tearing down the engine. Because of the ability to replace IMS bearings in the early '05 models that may be the best way to go! Who knows?

In the back of my mind, I seem to remember someone who had a retrofit IMS failure. Best to search the forum for IMS in the title and read as much as you can!

I bought a used 2005 997S with 25k miles 3.5 years ago right after the manufacturer's warranty had expired on the car. I now have 48k miles and never bought an extended warranty. Personally, they're not for me - while one out of ten people may 'win' with an extended warranty, I think the majority end up coming out in the hole.

These cars are very reliable. The only mechanical failure I've had was an alternator cable. At $1200 installed, it wasn't cheap but I would have paid $3-4k for an aftermarket warranty to get that covered and that's the only thing I would have used it for. Keep in mind these warranties don't cover routine scheduled maintenance (spark plugs, coils, air filters, pollen filters, etc.). It just seems like a steep price to pay for peace of mind but then again I guess different people price peace of mind differently. :rolleyes:

The IMS issue is way overstated. My Porsche mechanic (at the local dealership) talked me out of the LN bearing swap and stated that the failure rate is so uncommon that it would statistically be a waste of money. My 05 S has been problem free (nearing 20k miles).

Tarek I believe I saw your car in person in the AJs plaza - frank lloyd wright and thompson peak next to Flos about a week ago. Great looking car thought it was a turbo from the front! Good luck on the sale and the search for a newer one.

From looking at countless threads...and browsing ebay it seems that most mentions of IMS issues came from 05s (saw a couple eBay listing throughout the year that mentioned engine replacements in the 05s, never seen it in 06 and up on there). I picked up an 06 C2 loving every minute of it!

I've always wanted a porsche for my collection, you guys have talked about so many engine failure problems, i don't think its worth all the worry

Hopefully you're collecting cars which aren't depreciating in value.

Put it into perspective, it is the internet. What 21 posts here, maybe 250 active Porsche 996/997 members posting. How many failures, very very few. There are thousands and thousands of 996/97 cars out there. The IMS is an issue, get an LN replacement, monitor the filter, etc and motor basically worry free. Newer 997 ie 2006+++-2008 seem to be less effected.
I would buy another one in a heartbeat, prices are insanely low and they are better performing cars in every way over a 964 or 993 and personally I like them better. Most people still think mine is new, at least that is what they comment on all the time.

There is no free lunch. CPO from the dealer means you are paying up front. Save $10K and buy second hand, private party, non warranty. Odds are that you will come out ahead in case the motor grenades. I bought the first production run '05 C2S. It was out of warranty and had roughly 40K miles. It now as 60K miles and other than normal maintenance, it is running great. It's a daily driver and I'm not going to replace or upgrade the IMS. I see no need to upgrade or replace the IMS.

Agree w/ Sharkys. The IMS is not the ticking time bomb the internet would lead anyone to believe it is. Just check your oil filter on each oil change for any metallic flakes. There are warning signs months and months ahead of a catastrophic failure. Assuming you change the oil at least once a year and keep an eye on the filter, you'll know if and when it's time to replace the IMS bearing.

I've also heard that cars that had the IMS bearing failure typically had owners report a chirping noise upon start-up and shops incorrectly diagnose it as the starter going bad. Again, do your research, there are warning signs you can pay attention to without extended warranties or LN Engineering upgrades, and still enjoy your car!

I've had my 997s 05 for over 3 years no warranty at 29000 miles. Changed the oil 3 times and brake fluid twice since I've had it. Spent more on tires. However I plan to keep the car over the long haul and been considering doing the IMS next year. I'd rather use the $$ on PSE which I think I will do first then consider the IMS if I start to read more posts with IMS stories.

If this was a problem, wouldn't we see more 996s with blown engines?

I've had my 2005 997S for well over 5 years. Been out of warranty since 8/2008 and have experienced only maintenance expenses (ie. oil changes, filters, brake fluid replacement, plugs/coils, etc). Did replace the alternator cable due to slow cranking.

If you find a well maintained 2005 that is priced right I'd go for it.

Yup, that was me, i usually have coffee at that starbucks every morning! So were both in Scottsdale & looking for 997's...damn it loool...