Engine broken, Porsche's fault, what to do?
 

Hi every one,
I live in Tunisia, I have bought a carrera 4s 977.2 In November in Dubai and brought it in Tunisia the 06th December 2011. It was under warranty til the 14th of January.
I have taken it to the Porsche dealer in tunis, to tell me if anything was to be taken under warranty, to check if everything was ok and after a few days he just told me that a small repair was apparently done one the left wing, but everything seemed perfect.
In February 2012 I took it for the 2 years/20 000 Km maintenance and after 3 days It returned without anything to say from th dealer. (This maintenance comprised a inspection of the air filter)
In late April I had engine problems (2 months and 3000 kms after th maintenance), so I took it to them.
First they were thinking it was a catalyst problem, so they emptied one, and then after trying it, it appeared that the problem was wider, because it showed me a 'low pressure of engine oil'.
After more than 2 months, they told me a incredible story:
They found big quantity of sand in the air filter and also air intake.
They are thinking that's the origin of the low pressure and they also found oil filter full of steel powder.
They told me I have to change th engine because the sand broke it!!!!!
After 2 years and 26000 kms!!!
I ordered a expert report, and apparently it is confirming th sand presence.
Porsche doesn't want to change the engine because the car is not under warranty anymore.

What is incredible is that they took off the air filter and put it again for inspection in February without saying anything.
So 2 things:
- whether they did not inspect it at all
- or they forgot to put back the air filter

I think they are trying to hide their error to avoid replacing the engine.

For a 120 000 euros car, it is unforgivable, specially that all the maintenance were always done in Porsche centers!!!

What do you advise me to do!?
Do you have persons in Germany I can contact for this purpose because I am suspecting the tunis Porsche dealer to try not to admit his fault.
Please help me!

P.S: since may my car is in th dealer without moving and I have to rent another car, so I can no more tolerate this situation !!

So where was the car driven between February and April? If it was driven out in areas of lots of sand in the air, it could well have sucked it all into the air filter in that time for all we know.

I drove it for 3000 kms in these 2 months, highways, and normal streets.
I live in tunis which is far from the Sahara !!
Even if there is some sand in the filter, how can it go inside the air element, and in a sufficient quantity to break the engine, in only 2 months, and 3000kms!?
Am I the only one to be suspicious ?

Wow...that is bad news. I would start with Porsche Customer Care and see if they would be willing to offer you some goodwill help with the engine replacement. Maybe they will offer to cover the actual cost of the engine and you pay the labor to replace it or something like that.

A lot of this would be helped along if your servicing dealership kind of went to bat for you and assisted with this problem, without admitting responsibility. Hopefully you were calm and professional when you talked to your servicing dealership.

Thanks for your word, i Will try to contact them, by thé Porsche website.
Hope it will help me
I always dreamt of owning a Porsche, I wish my nightmare will end one day ;(

I agree with this. I am sorry this happened to you and it is only speculation how and where it occurred. Hopefully Porsche Customer Care can help you in some manner.

Sad story! How can sand go thru the filter into air intake?? Something not right...

Skip the dealer and contact Porsche customer service.

Do you havé a good contact, or should i have to Google,though thé website?

that should work. or maybe someone can look in the owners manual for the numbers if you don t have yours.

I've been on the warranty administration side in business aviation and sometimes situations are not clear cut, and no matter what you do as a company, the customer is still PO'd that full compensation was not made to correct a condition outside the explicit contractual warranty. Your situation is even more complicated for receiving compensation, because you say the car is out of warranty, so I am presuming from this and the number of months and Km's you've driven it, that you bought it used. Furthermore, the engine is ruined, not because of any internal flaw in design, but because a foreign substance (sand) appears to have been ingested, and there is no obvious reason it happened. I'm thinking that Porsche or their authorized dealer is in no way obligated anymore than they would be to fix or replace an unwarranted tire if you ran over a nail, but one or the other may offer some assistance as a good will gesture while in no way accepting "ownership" of the cause if you approach them in a conciliatory way.

Another consideration to bear in mind is that dealers have to make decisions on warranty based on whether Porsche will reimburse them for the work they choose to perform as a warranty claim. If they perform the work and then the claim is denied by Porsche AG, the dealer bears the burden of expense, so arguing with the dealer in this case will likely get you nowhere, and your best chance for warranty repair is directly with the mothership.


Question: Before you bought the car, did you get a thorough Pre Purchase Inspection by a knowledgeable technician?

I feel your pain and wish you good luck.

I'm also a little envious that you have a Porsche dealer in Tunisia, and we don't have one in Arkansas... :(

I have a hard time believing that sand or dust sucked into an engine (even with no air filter) could have destroyed the motor. Especially while driving in Tunis, who is close to the sea and therefore less dusty than other Tunisian cities.

Besides, sand particles would be ejected from the engine like any other residues of combustion (the black soot that stains your tailpipes).

If they found a lot of metal shavings and particles in the oil filter, it could be another cause such as an intermediate bearing or another internal part being damaged.

The question is: do you trust the local dealer? Can they be trusted?
I know that I will probably get flamed for my comments, but here in the United States where all is supposed to be "great" and first class service, we have very incompetent dealers and less than honest ones. My experience with the local BMW dealer was interesting and I have found more than one part assembled upside down on my previous M3 from their "impeccable" services.

I have also dealt with the BMW dealer in Ceuta (Spain/north Africa) for a windshield ordered and paid that I never got. The point is when you live in countries located in Africa and other places, regular courtesy and protocols no longer apply. You have to know the people and trust them. And they have to know you. I lived in North Africa for a few years and I know a little bit how things work there. Did you forget the "Bakshish" by any chance?

Also, do not forget that all electronics and cars imports in Tunis are controlled by the mafia in place by the former Tunisian president. Although the President has been evicted, his minions are still in place and still controlling cell phones, cars and all imported goods.

I would definitely avoid the Tunis dealer and deal directly with Porsche explaining to them that metal shavings were found in the oil filter during regular maintenance while the car was still under warranty.

Good luck.
Yves

Thanks Yves for your comment.
I Will indeed try to contact Porsche, bécause i am far from trusting thé local dealer.
Hé Said to me that its likely that former owner had taken off thé air filter and them pût it back. But Èven if it was the case, Porsche tunis should,have noticed the conséquences while they inspected it in thé maintenance..

Sanchofa,

is the car running? Can you start the engine? How does it sound when you run it? Is the oil pressure normal on the dashboard?

Can you tell with certainty that the oil filter they showed you with metal scraps is yours?

If they were to change the oil again, in front of you, would they find metal shavings in it again?

Just a few questions, that is all.

Yves

After they told me they emptied the left cat, i,drove the car a few km to test it.
And I had a message from the car saying low oil pressure, and then the engine stopped, and I could not make it start again it was shutting off every time after 3 sec
I took it to them again and after 2months, they told me:
- they emptied the second cat
- they had to repair the ignition ( I never noticed nothing from it, and it was trying to start the engine fine)
-they had to take off the engine to reach the ignition
- they have repaired the engine stopping I don't know how
- they were (I don't know the word) "shaking" after they put back the engine (I think they didn't put it the right way)
- they had always the low engine pressure
- they cleaned the air filter and air intake from a big quantity of sand
- they found metal shavings in the oil filter, they replaced it, but it didn't resolve the problem
- the final test would have been to replace the oil filter, but it should be helpless

Now yes the engine starts normally, smell of oil coming from the exhaust, it gets too hot and very quickly, still displays the low pressure message,
They didn't show me the oil filter
I don't know if they were to change the oil again what they would find ,

The problem here is nothing is clear and I have to believe their word,
The only things I really noticed are the sand I'm the air intake, and the low pressure..

Yves apparently you seem to know very well the context..